For the guys who do business in china.

Almost every asian person relatively familiar with the culture will know or have heard of the reputation of businessmen in china + KTV outings.

So.... if you SO asks you if you go out to those parties, what do you say?

If the answer is NO NOT AT ALL, its pretty unrealistic and unbelievable. What else do you do? stay in your hotel room the whole night every business trip?

I opted to say: yes, I do, but I've only been a few times with some really straight korean businessmen who don't fool around. Yes, we had extra girls to accompany us in the room, but no-one takes the girls home. I also throw in that there were even a few of the female factory assistants along for the outing and they were singing their heads off in the ktv room. So it would be really awkward for anyone to take a girl home with those female workmates present.

I was curious to know what the other peoples stories are?

After all, if you do business in china this is an inevitable question that you must be prepared for.

OF COURSE you have to confirm that you do go to KTV's in China - as that is just how business is done there.

As far as doing anything with those dirty gals - Oh MY GOD! - Of course NOT!
Who do you think I am?  
Jeez!

SEAJ

Depends on the cultural background of your SO.  U.S. girls will buy the "no, I would NEVER" line.  Vietnamese girls will whole heartedly believe that you're the only good guy out of your rat pack (they'll believe that until you're caught the first time! ). I have some funny moments watching friends tell their wives about this subject and it is a real test of your poker face.

Me I would tell her everything! The whole works! Just don't tell her that 'we' also bring the girls home. Only there to keep us company. Our supplier will bring girls home! Sooner or later they will find out about what goes on in there anyway, so better to hearfrom me first. Just have to say its the norm over in china.

yea, that's very true. it does depend on how "china-informed" they are. I had no problems with outright denial with the last one. But the current one is a mainlander herself who has heard of a million stories.

yea of course we can't admit anything. But is there a way other people spin or deflect any suspicions in a different way?

I tell her straight up that I always have to go and that that's part of doing business in China. But I also tell her that I resent the fact that you have to pay a girl to sit there wtih you and steal your drinks. I tell her it's pure daylight robbery! haha.. she knows I love my booze and whenever I'm out with her and some friends I make sure all the glasses are empty as wasting alcohol is a cardinal sin! haha..

As for taking the girls up.. I always tell her that there's never any point cause I'd be too drunk to do it and seriously... why pay for something I can get for free.. then give her a tickle and a kiss! Works like a charm! haha

it depends where you are from. Most Western woman who live outside HK / China would not have any idea what KTV is so no need to even mention it... whatever it is...

When I was in Korea, my SO knew what all that KTV bs was (Room-Salon would be the equivalent in Korea). When she found out I was going out with my mates once, she insisted in tagging along! Actually I ended up bringing her there... but we didn't last long there before she picked a fight with one of the girls my friends had picked. All in all, good fun!

wow.... now thats gotta be a good story!
you got some balls to allow those two things to mix!

Hah, it was a one time only event. And only because it was my friend's birthday and he wanted to go, and my S.O. was also very good pals with my friend.

Nevertheless, don't ever bring bitches to KTV!!

Many (if not most) Western wives will NOT accept the arguement that going to strip clubs, KTV joints, or whatever is REQUIRED for work.  They'll say - change jobs or change wives!

If asked, tell her no fucking way!!  If you say "yes" and she decides to get curious about what goes on in a KTVs you'll be fucked.  (er.., that is, you WONT be fucked, by her, for some time to come).  Plus, she'll start getting curious about all your other activities while "working".  

Instead you do business dinners (like she's used to hearing about), sometimes a walk, sometimes a hotel-movie, whatever.

THAT.... is precisely why (even though I did partook of some fine times with them when I was younger) I had never considered/will EVER consider marrying one of dem ball-breaking, liberated, equality in marriage Western gals.

The realities of life - especially in Asia - is that one does have to practically prostitute oneself to get anywhere in one's career. How DARE any wife make demands as to chose between career and her?  Without career, there's no way to keep wife - THAT...is what its all about.

SEAJ

Well, honestly SEAj.., this is NOT the realities of life and careers in North America and Western Europe - and the gals know it.  It is instead a rare exception.  The "old boys club" days of taking clients to stripper bars and buying them hookers is LONG GONE for 99% of professions.  Most business is a straight-forward, squeeky-clean business transaction.  For many years I was a high-dollar, telecom salesman with a juicy expense account and few questions - working on deals rarely smaller than $2mmUSD and often much bigger:  ie. the defination of a profession that USED to require favors, booze and girls to seal the deal.  Long gone, my freind.  My deals were fought over to the death on price, quality, features, service, politics etc.  Not how much of a buddy the VP or Procurement Officer was.  

Only a western gal with their head in the sand would accept the arguement.  That said, they ARE a ton of gals with their head in the sand - just you likely wouldnt want to marry them anyway.

Ahhh....yes...Western business world....I remember it well...from when I was also a struggling salesman in North America....and how I did go along...with whatever the client wanted to do ..or want go to...and which still happens....even.... and especially with...Western businessmen...visiting Asia.

And the original question posed by the OP is going to KTV's in China. Yeah, Western business likes to portray themselves as squeaky clean - but how about the actual businessman representing these supposedly squeaky clean businesses?

In fact, how many here are those very same "businessmen representing a Western business?" You guys would NEVER ask your local counter-party to EVER take you to a KTV - right?  Would NEVER go to one even when invited - right? LMAO!

SEAJ

Umm, errr, right actually.  I NEVER, EVER mix carnal pleasure with work.  Ever!  Too much nasty info for a co-worker to be aware of.  

I am not saying just cause I dont do it other people don't.  But I NEVER mix my work and personal lives, nor give a co-worker or colleage that kind of deadly career-ending information.

Errr.... I THINK you still don't know how to handle this all!!  Sorry guy!!

OK - You gotta tell your SO that entertaining clients is part and parcel of the business practices in Asia - especially in China. Tell her that you have no choice BUT to accompany them to KTV's - but that you use such times to strengthen your position i.e. you accompany them, let THEM get all rowdy and nasty - and thus arming YOU with information/leverage when dealing business with them - as you had of course been goody goody two shoes ANYTIME you do go to these affairs.

Now, when you do go to a KTV for YOUR OWN PERSONAL PLEASURE (or for that matter, anywhere else), you WILL tell your SO that you are on just another one of these stressful nights of having to watch all the gross antics of your business counterpart.

And oh of course, ONLY if she asks you where you went....or IF she happens to phone you whilst you're out and about....or worse.... as had happened to me...when my stupid phone accidentally phoned my SO whilst I was at a KTV!  Yup - dumb-shit me - but it happened!!

Errr.... get it??

SEAJ

[ Last edited by  SEAJ at 4-11-2011 17:22 ]

There isn't a hetrosexual man alive who would not LOVE KTV. It is one of the world's great pleasures, so many senses are taken care of. As a Western business man travelling in China I love KTV and I love enjoying it with friends and colleagues. I have met some great friends at KTV and some excellent business partners as well.

However, it is not part of Western mainstream culture. I'm glad it's not. It means I can travel to China with far less suspicion. Long may it be that way!

I'm right there with you Wander, particularly with the co-worker part.  As to clients, it's more of a maybe yes, maybe no, but co-workers?  Absolutely never.  I once saw a senior partner get crucified with just such intel and the cost to him in lost bonus probably instantly doubled the price he'd paid for all his punts in the last decade or more.

In Asia the guys either know how to keep their traps shut, or maybe it just doesn't matter.  Not so with your co-workers from other cultures.

does anyone go out with your suppliers?
I've done it a few times before but it never feels quite right as I am always guarded with suppliers.