Most expats that have the mentality of "we will be having sex very soon" and can't accept just a kiss for a night out with a civvie girl are not looking for a relationship at all, they are looking for a casual fling or one night stand.

It's not rocket science to figure out that a lot of civvie girls can't accept that.  That's not just Hong Kong, but all over the world.

If I'm dating a civvie girl, I can accept the fact that she won't sleep with me for a while, with perhaps three months into the relationship considered my maximum waiting period.  If I'm dating a civvie girl in the first place, presumably I want a relationship.  One night stands and flings in a small city like Hong Kong is socially bad form, and not to be recommended if you want to be able to move around in social circles without all the girls badmouthing you behind your back.  One night stand?  Go to Macau!  Of course, if the local HK girl can accept that, then I'll go along with the ride.  The key here is that you're dating a civvie girl, you should not be expecting her to be dropping her pants for you in the first week, but if she does, well, when in Rome ...

In reference to buying a WG some moderately expensive gift from a branded shop, I think the disconnect here is that you seem to be thinking I (and other guys who do it), buy it as a romantic or extravagant gesture for that special somebody.  That's not always true.  Some of the girls I've bought presents for are girls that I don't have any thought of seeing again.  I just happen to think it looks good on them, or I just feel like doing it.

It also happens to be a matter of scale.  Consider, if you were out with a KTV WG, and you have bought her out for the 3k HKD or so, and she happens to spill something on her shirt while you are walking in the mall.  Would you buy her a t-shirt from Giordano for 70 HKD so she can change?  Is that extravagant to a guy who makes 20k HKD/month?  I don't know too many punters here that would gainsay buying a t-shirt for a WG, and none of you would say it's too much.

However, if a guy makes, for this example, let's say 500k HKD / month, then is a 14k Tiffany bracelet too much?

Fact is, the two guys here would look at buying a t-shirt and a Tiffany bracelet in the same manner.  As in, "Well, what the hell, I'm here anyways."

I've actually been in both situations before, and I thought about it in almost the same manner.  I did think have a fleeting second thought on the bracelet, but in the end I was enjoying doing a little bit of shopping.  I think it would have been better if there were cheaper stores to buy from, but in the Wynn, the only place that's cheap is perhaps the Wynn Shop.

Would I give a WG 14k to buy a bracelet?  No.  But that's mainly because I'm not sure, unless you were in the store, that a bracelet that looks nice would cost exactly that much.  But if you ask, would I give 2k HKD to a girl and say, "Go buy yourself something nice.", then yes, I've done that many times before.

I've also gone out of my way while shopping in a department store, to buy a small stuffed animal that cost 100 HKD for a WG that I saw once before.   That's only because I felt like it, not that she asked for it.

Truthfully, unless it is a recurring expense, I look at 10,000 HKD and 1,000 HKD in about the same manner.  If this is happening once a day, or once a week, then of course you'll have to consider the impact, but as always, depends on the scale.  I have friends who think nothing about buying an apartment and car for a girl to get her in bed, and yes, most people think they are nuts.  But in their case, they don't even consider that money.  I'm not quite at that level, and I'm a lot more practical than that anyways.

Also, I don't really care if the girl sells the item back to the store or to a third-party for cash.  I gave the item freely, she is free to do what she wishes with it.  I'm not sure why this would be a concern.  It would be a concern only if the girl is badgering you for the item, and then you reluctantly gift it to her.  I should be clear on that, I gift items to girls when and if I feel like it, I NEVER give a WG something that she is harassing me to get for her.

Lastly, sometimes you get unexpected results from random gifting.  I find this amusing in and of itself.  I've given 1k HKD to a Lisboa racetrack girl just because she was super hot and always had a great smile whenever I walked by her.  She didn't know what to do with the money, she was pretty surprised when I told her that, No, I didn't want to go up with her (at the time I was being bitchslapped and henpecked by the ex-Macau gf). Now, everytime I see her in the hallways she waves to me and no more than 5 minutes later, I will get a text message asking if I want her to drop by after she's finished working.  Nope, she doesn't charge me, for anybody wanting to know.  Of course, the couple of other times I did this the girl either looked at me thinking I'm insane (which I probably was), and had one target me for the rest of the trip as she thought I'd be an easy mark.  LOL I guess I find people interesting.

So basically, gifting and tipping excessively is really a matter of scale.  Some of the people who do this are compensating, some are trying to be romantic and put up an illusion, and some just don't really care, as the amount of money that seems excessive to you is like buying that Giordano t-shirt to them.

As I said, do it for yourself.

... and for someone like me, being
  linguistically challenged
  shackled to Hong Kong every night
  short of time
  unfamiliar with the back streets of Shenzhen / Zhuhai / etc.

... someone as generous as you acts as "ground bait" to attract girls to Hong Kong, who I would otherwise not have the time to meet.  It means I don't need to go to PRC and learn how to handle a KTV, and go as part of a group.  I just stay home and play with the girls on my doorstep.  

[ Last edited by  DArtagnan at 20-8-2010 16:03 ]

I don't live in Hong Kong, so it's others that are doing this for you, if at all.

I think it's the fact that people like you do exist, that punt and stay in Hong Kong, and that is why PRC girls head over to Hong Kong to work the trade.  That would seem much more logical.

I'm really against the notion that larger tips and gifts spoil WGs.  I do have clients/customers come into my shops and while some would pay through the nose for an item, or for better service, I certainly do not base my business plans around these type of customers.

The market decides, not the individual.  If the market price moves up, it's because lots of people feel its worth paying more, and it's collectively everybody's fault.

Quite so.

Having said that it's not the fact that 700 HGs go home flaunting (say) the equivalent of 6 months wages that attracts the new ones ... it's the couple of dozen outliers that go home with several years' worth of wages (plus bling) after a month's 'vacation' that gets them salivating about doing the same.  

So I do believe that a few very generous individuals actually help grow the market for everyone.

I just went to the Shanghai Expo (don't bother) and I bought a couple of my regulars souvenirs.  Average cost was about 200RMB each.  I know it will mean a lot more to them than the 400RMB means to me, and I'll probably get some sort of gift in return, so who cares?  It makes me happy and it makes them happy.

Now again, this could be scaled up 14k if I had that kind of money.  The reason would be the same.

What a load of rubbish. All girls do ONS but in vary quantities. Everyone's at it, except for the boys who are too chickenshit to put themselves out there in case they get rejected and then laughed at. The men who do get the laughs behind the back are also the men who fuck a lot of girls. Locals. ONS style as well. Its all a numbers game.


How ugly, obnoxious, or just basically "loser-ville" would you have to be to have to buy a car or apartment to fuck a girl.


Exactly my point. I find a BJ and an icecream is chicken soup for the soul. I dont need to splash the cash on a hooker to make myself feel good

I can assure you that not all girls in certain circles have one-night stands.  Then again, it really depends on the company you keep, and the people you know.  For you to assume that all girls, in all social circles do this, is patently incorrect.  That being said, sure, there are girls and guys out there that engage in one-night stands.

For you to assume that people who would do something like this are ugly, obnoxious, or "loserville" is being pretty obnoxious yourself.  If you can afford to do so, then it's their choice.  You might as well call a guy who buys a 1M dollar Bugatti a loser since you drive a Honda Civic - both of which get you to the destination.  I'm sure everybody shares your opinion here.

You may find solace in a BJ and ice cream, sure why not.  But others have different ways of getting the different things they want.  

You may not need to spash cash on a hooker to make yourself feel good, but definitely you have a need to try and demonize people with more resources as a loser, in order for yourself to feel good.  Oh well, that's your right LOL.

Yup, exactly right.

Most of the time I buy them small things, around a few hundred bucks at most.  Not necessary to spend a lot, but if it happens it happens, just make sure the cost doesn't gut you.

The apartment is simple math:-

in round numbers you can rent a small apartment for about 15x to 20x the cost of a hotel for 3-4 hours ... which means if you're fucking more than 3 or 4 times a week it works out cheaper to rent than to take a motel.  And if you're going for higher end chicks, comparing a better hotel to a better apartment, the payback is even faster.  That means once you're in mistress territory, with the possibility of daily visits at any time of day or night, a knock-shack is a cost saver not an extravagant splurge.  

Don't have an answer to the car (yet) ... any takers??

[ Last edited by  DArtagnan at 21-8-2010 00:26 ]

I think he was talking about buying not renting. Besides being a mistress is the same as a girlfriend or a wife, the only difference is a mistress is part of a polygamist school of thinking where in a mistress is actually the 2nd girlfriend. In a monogamous society she is an illegal. You basically treat her the same if not even with more generosity, because the person is compensating for what he considers treading on which the social paradigm defines as unnatural. In a polygamous society the mistress is actually a 2nd wife with full and exact rights as the 1st wife.

Sorry but you are wrong. What I think you are confusing is the amount of ONS sex you have and the average women. ONS is sex outside a relationship, and this can come after a meal, a drink, or just seeing the driver in tight trousers and getting a wet gusset. All women have ONS (on the assumption they are not married or in stable relationships and even then it is not a given). If this were not the case, there must a a handful of girls getting fucked 400 times a night because a lot of men are having ons. Could it be the case that you are trying to make yourself feel better about your lack of free fucking by hoping no one else is getting any? Do you have your eye on some young lovely in your gold plate festooned cafe bar full of people wearing white suits, hoping that one day she will let you hold her hand, and all the while fearing that a Gweilow has be breaking her back doors down during lunchtime?


I don't agree with your contention at all, and you are making a basic internet forum mistake as well. You are making assumptions about another member that are based on nothing apart from knowledge of yourself and your own standing, and believing that no one could possibly ever be better placed in society than yourself. Well each to their own, although I tend not to associate myself with people who need to talk about their wealthy friends or be this crass.

Also, your analogy is flawed as well unless the man was giving the Veyron to a girl to have sex with her, whilst another man the next night fucks the same girl for free. So if this is what you were inferring, then yes, he is a loser. Also, I think I would kill myself rather than buy a girl a house just to fuck her. Seriously, how miserable must your existence be, when you are alone surrounded by your flash trappings of oodles of cash, to realise that the only reason people and girls spend time with you is because you have to buy them expensive gifts. So not obnoxious, just plain simple observation which if thought about by earnestly by most members, they would agree.


Firstly, thank you for the frank admission that you "NEED TO SPASH (sic) CASH ON A HOOKER" to make yourself feel good. It is a brave man to stand up and admit a hollowness in their life that is only filled by lavish displays of cash on girls paid to spend time with him. Not my cup of tea I must say, but accepting is the first step to recovery.


I'm not demonizing at all. In fact, this thread is not about knocking people who do. It's trying to understand the mind set behind it. Crass as it sounds, if I wanted to walk into Tiffany's and throw 15k down the gurgler on a whore, I could do so. I don't want or have to though because I know that without it, both me and who ever I am with is still having a good time. In fact, I have a better idea that in civvie street, or with a WG off duty, they are there because they like spending time with me and not because they think they will profit from it.  I have more respect for the dear member whose name I have forgotten who said he has helped quite a few newbies in the china KTVs by buying their bond and getting them out of their slavery. At least he was doing it for them, and not to make him self feel good.

Mr Reyes - I would avoid looking up to people who are cash rich. They throw it around and believe every one loves them, but if they were ever honest to themselves, they can never truly be at peace and relax because they know that without their brash displays of wealth, they are alone with themselves. The ones who are honest with themselves usually then turn to drugs, booze and suicide because they don't like being alone with themselves because they are, basically, shallow and obnoxious.

[ Last edited by  akka at 21-8-2010 12:52 ]

I agree with most of what you wrote, except that ALL gals who are not married or in serious relationships have one nightstands.  I have met some serious prudes out there.  Maybe I'm hanging out in the wrong places, or you live at a pick-up bar.  

From what I interpret the definition of "one-night stand" to be, it's for two people to have sex without knowing the other person too well, e.g., they meet at the bar or a club, and that they will not see each other again after having sex.  Is this wrong?

Unfortunately, and it seems to me that you would cringe at the thought, but from my experience there truly are some gals that just don't do one night stands.  Casual relationships, i.e., fuck buddies, of course, I'd say the majority of gals without significant others would do this, but I would disagree with your contention that all single gals categorically would habitually partake in one night stands as well.  

But then - it all goes to convincing these gals.  If we lay down the ground rules immediately that it's going to be a ONS, that I will not give you my mobile number, that I don't want yours, either, that I don't care what your dog's name is, will she be OK with this?  Some chicks get weird, some chicks are fine with it.  But that's half the fun, isn't it?

I agree with your definition, although you can have a ONS with someone you know. Basically its one off sex. Done once and not repeated. If they have had casual sex then they can be classified as open to it. I would say 3-5% of girls have not had casual sex. 50% might not have realised it was casual sex at the time though, only to have it spelled out to them by no returned phone calls from the guy.

So, i reckon 3-5% of girls have not done this. And I never said habitually either. Just once or twice,after all if they were copping i every night, they would be slag hookers living in the millions of houses bought for them by flash classless twats.

In saying ALL women have ONS. It does not mean all the time. But I would say that most are open to it. Prudish or not, they are like an oyster. You need to know how to open them up to enjoys the salty goodness. Unfortunately each ones are different.

A woman does not know and does not need to know this is a one off thing though. Its not our job to tell them "I'm going o fuck you and never speak to you again" - hardly a great chat up line, although I might try this tonight to see if it works.

[ Last edited by  akka at 21-8-2010 12:49 ]

At least they know your honest.  Let us know if you get a drink thrown in your face.

Doesn't most relationships actually start with a ONS? wherein both parties continued seeing each other cause the chemistry was right between them.

I will be speaking about girls in China, as I never dated outside it so no experience of other girls. Most of my dates had ended with sex in the same day that I got to know the girl, and most of it did not processed further. That is not considered being in a relationship cause I did not know her 24 hours ago, but is it considered a ONS although there wasn't any intention to just have meaning less and ignore the partner afterwards? I believe so, OSN has been the way I have been knowing girls, and eventually knowing the SO from it.

So I kinda agree with akka here, that most girls do OSN, other wise how would any one start a relationship?

I wouldn't consider a ONS to be classified as a ONS if you develop a relationship with the gal afterwards.  It would be more a casual relationship.  I think your SO would slap you if you told her that you just wanted to get down her pants, nothing else.  

My idea of a ONS is chatting up a gal somewhere, then going to your place or her place for some nookie, and then that's it.  No phone numbers exchanged, you may or may not even know her name.  All done simply because of some chemistry, and that the both of you are horny.  

As for if relationships actually start with a ONS, I think it depends - from my experience, some gals won't sleep with you unless they get to know you better.  Like you need to go out on a couple dates before they let you have sex with them.  Suppose you see the gal a couple times than she decides that you have had enough and to let you slip your cock inside her.  Does that qualify as a one night stand?  I don't know.  I think - you can consider it a ONS, but just keep it to yourself or you'll get a drink thrown in your face like Akka will get tonight.

Well, it might be the other way around, with girls letting you into their pants cause they will treat you as OSN if the chemistry did not work.

From my experience the new generation of youngsters don't consider having sex as a big issue as the generations before. They rather explore and adventure first before committing into a relationship. Correct me if am wrong, but the discussion here, gives me a vibe that the way it is been looked upon is that OSN is what males look for and not females.

Yes - well, I've been raised that way.  However, with the internet and porn, etc., everywhere, sex isn't as taboo as it once was.  Hell, I remember in high school I had a pager, I had to write my homework in pen and paper, and I didn't have a computer.

Hehe, those are the old times. I remember my first GF was when I was in the uni, it took me two weeks just to start talking normally in front of her and two months before a kiss.

Forward a few years later, a female friend 14 yo was having orgy in the boarding school. Guess we arrived a bit early to this world. Bummer.

Surely - buying a house and gifting it to a girlfriend would be outrageous - you're not even expected to do that if you marry the woman!  

But buying instead of renting makes perfect sense: that way it's an investment not an expense.  Even at today's prices you can buy for what it would cost to rent, and the bulk of your paymentsgo towards paying off the loan.  Putting a woman in it to make it comfortable just makes it an even better investment ...