why you live in there? for business or there are other reasons?

Compare this debarcle with a hostage incident in Washington today:

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news ... rf7lf-1225913088442

Gunman shot - nil injuries to hostages (in fact, the gunman was only shot "after they saw him point a handgun at one of the hostages." Talk about being in control of the situation!

Man, is the whole country incompetent?

http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2010/9/2/apworld/20100902141221&sec=apworld


Published: Thursday September 2, 2010 MYT 2:04:00 PM

Hong Kong: Bodies of Manila bus victims mixed up


HONG KONG (AP) - Philippine authorities sent the bodies of three of the victims in the Manila bus hijacking to the wrong families, Hong Kong said Thursday, in the latest of a series of missteps in the handling of the crisis.

The eight bodies were shipped back last Wednesday to Hong Kong, where tearful relatives laid wreaths on the coffins of their loved ones at the airport as officials stood in attention - but three families were paying their respects to the wrong bodies.

The three families discovered the mistake when they opened the coffins at the morgue later that night, Hong Kong's Security Bureau said in a statement. The families had identified the bodies in Manila, so it's possible that funeral parlor workers in the Philippines mislabeled them, the statement said.

The Security Bureau didn't identify which victims were mixed up.

Philippine Social Welfare Secretary Corazon Soliman said she would investigate, adding, "If there was a mix-up of those names, we apologize.

"It was really the desire to facilitate and bring the bodies to Hong Kong as quickly as possible because that will ease the pain of the families," she told The Associated Press in Manila.

This wealthy southern Chinese financial hub already has simmered with anger over the deaths. Hong Kongers have been outraged that Philippine police bungled negotiations with the hostage-taker, a former police officer seeking reinstatement, as well as the rescue operation. Locals have denounced Philippine President Benigno Aquino III as "scum" in heated online messages.

Hong Kong's Legislative Council was to discuss the tragedy in a special meeting later Thursday and vote on a resolution declaring that the rescue operation suffered from "serious failures."

The backlash has also extended to mainland China. Thousands of Chinese tourists have canceled their flight and hotel bookings and two of three Chinese recipients of a prestigious prize named after a former Philippine president skipped the awards ceremony on Tuesday.

Meanwhile, there is the sense in the Philippines that the country has already shown enough remorse and shouldn't be reduced to self-flagellation.

The Philippine Daily Inquirer said in an editorial on Thursday that the country has already asked for forgiveness and wants a proper investigation as well.

"We are in solidarity with the women and men who offer prayers, flowers and lighted candles ... but we see no point in prostrating ourselves further, or in insulting the Philippine government as though in a continuing kowtow," the newspaper wrote.

check out this recent article on the incident......

Snipers 'missed chance' in Manila hijack

Philippine police gave up many chances to shoot a sacked colleague who seized a busload of Hong Kong tourists, authorities said on Friday as they admitted to many errors that led to eight hostages being killed.

The country's police chief left Manila halfway through the crisis, the force's best-trained unit sat out a bungled assault on the bus and the media were allowed to run wild, a public inquiry was told.

Interior Undersecretary Rico Puno and police chief Jesus Verzosa admitted there were repeated opportunities for snipers to shoot the hijacker during the day-long standoff, which was aired around the world on live television.

"There were a lot of chances where we could (have taken) him down," Puno told the inquiry.

"The general idea then was we would just tire him out and he would release the hostages."

Sacked policeman Rolando Mendoza took the busload of tourists hostage on August 23 in Manila in a desperate bid to clear himself of extortion charges and get his job back.

For much of the day the negotiating team believed Mendoza was cooperative, Puno said, borne out by his decision to free about a third of the 25 hostages as he bargained for authorities to re-open the extortion case against him.

"By all indications he would release all of them," Puno said.

But Mendoza, armed with an M-16 assault rifle and a pistol, started shooting about 10 hours into the ordeal after he saw his brother, also a Manila police officer, being detained just outside the bus.

The ill-prepared police were then forced to assault the bus, but were unable to get in and another hour went by before a sniper eventually shot Mendoza dead.

Asked if the authorities had failed in assessing Mendoza's readiness to kill the hostages, Puno told the inquiry: "Most probably, that is the case".

Verzosa told the inquiry he agreed with the decision not to kill Mendoza early on.

"There was no outward indication that he will hurt the hostages," Verzosa said.

"During the time that he was exposed it was foreseen that a peaceful resolution was at hand."

Verzosa said he flew from Manila to the southern Philippines four hours into the crisis to attend an official function.

He said he was in the air and unable to communicate with his personnel in charge of the hostage negotiations for about an hour, and then was only able to watch events unfold on television 800km from Manila.

Versoza defended his actions, insisting the visit to the south was important because he had to meet officials there on insurgency and terrorism issues.

The police chief said he did eventually fly back to Manila, after the bloodbath was over.

Verzosa also acknowledged that the Manila police rescue squad sent to storm the bus and end the crisis was not the best-trained or best-equipped unit at the government's disposal.

The assault squad that did go in did not have critical equipment, including special explosives that could have allowed them entry into the bus immediately, he said.

It took them an hour using sledgehammers and rope.

The unit best-equipped to handle the situation, the police Special Action Force, was in the area but sat out the assault until the last five to 10 minutes, Verzosa said.

Verzosa said he had not wanted to overrule the decision of the Manila police chief to not use the Special Action Force initially.

Both Verzosa and Puno also said the police failed to control the crowd, while television and radio stations continued to broadcast the crisis.

This allowed Mendoza to monitor what was going on around him via a television on board, which police failed to disable.

The inquiry, headed by the justice secretary, is scheduled to finish its hearings on Monday.

Puno, President Benigno Aquino's pointman for the hostage crisis, said he would take responsibility for the failed rescue.

However Aquino, speaking to reporters elsewhere, said that the Philippine president must shoulder responsibility.

"At the end of the day, I am responsible for everything that has transpired," Aquino said.

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=7955787

Today everyone in HK compare the following news vs the event in the Philippines. The SWAT team in the US is much more well trained.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bullet ends Discovery Channel hostage crisis
                       
Thursday, September 2, 2010

SILVER SPRING, Md. -- A hostage crisis at the Discovery Channel building ended Wednesday when police shot a man, who four hours earlier, took three people captive, brandishing a handgun and wearing what appeared to be silver canisters of explosives.

Police said no hostages were injured. The Washington Post reported that the gunman was killed.

The man, identified by The Associated Press as James J. Lee, stormed into the educational network's public lobby, a place frequented by parents and children drawn to see the 45-foot-tall Tyrannosaurus rex statue, around 1 p.m. Waving a handgun -- and possibly firing a shot, police say -- he took a security guard and two other employees hostage. As panicked employees rushed from the lobby, David Leavy, Discovery's vice president of communications, rushed down from his office to see what was happening.

"There was a lot of commotion," Leavy said. After a minute or two, they cleared the lobby, and Leavy and other executives huddled with security guards in a guard station nearby.

"We could see it unfolding on the security cameras," Leavy said.

He and other guards watched Lee force the hostages to lie face down. They couldn't identify the hostages, but they knew Lee from a protest he staged in front of the building in February 2008. Lee was arrested in that protest, and his picture was posted on the security guards' bulletin board, but "no one imagined this," Leavy said.

Lee's probation from that arrest ended two weeks ago, police said.

Leavy sent an emergency e-mail to employees, telling them to lock themselves in their offices. The first priority, he said, was evacuating dozens of children from the company's day care center inside the building.

Police and federal authorities arrived and ran into the silver-and-white office block as panicked children, then hundreds of employees, streamed out. Fewer than 10 employees, including Leavy, stayed behind to give law enforcement information about the building's layout.

Traci Drummond and Glen Yonkers were finishing lunch across the street from the Discovery building when they noticed people at the next table becoming agitated by a flurry of e-mails.

"They said their colleagues at the Discovery Channel saw a man loaded up with what looked like a bomb, and waving a gun, storm into their offices," Drummond said.

Dozens of police vehicles swarmed the area, cordoning off several blocks in each direction and emptying normally bustling streets between the building and a busy Metro rail stop.

Negotiators tried to get the man, who was arrested outside the Discovery building in 2008, to release the hostages, said Montgomery County police Chief J. Thomas Manger.

During the negotiations yesterday, he "exhibited a wide range of emotions," Manger said.

"Agitation, then calm, then agitation," Manger said. He hung up on police several times, but each time they were able to call back.

After four hours, the hostages, whom Lee had mostly ignored, began to move.

"I don't know if that's what agitated him," Manger said, but police believed, from the gunman's reaction, that the hostages' lives were in danger.

At 4:49 p.m., "the suspect was shot by police officers," Manger said. The shot came from inside the building, he said.

One canister he wore began to smoke, the chief said.

Lee initially survived the gunshot, which could be heard more than a block away.

Police took Lee into custody but kept the building locked down because Lee apparently stashed other canisters inside, Manger said.

"We believe we had him tracked the whole time," Manger said.

Employees are expected to return today, Leavy said.

As police evacuated the complex and word spread about the gunman, Drummond and Yonkers waited anxiously behind a police cordon until they saw friends who worked inside exit safely.

"We saw kids being evacuated" from a day care center inside, Yonkers said.

Drummond was working two years ago when she watched police arrest Lee for his 2008 protest.

"He was throwing money at people," Yonkers said.

Lee said then that he was angry the network wasn't doing enough to save the planet, Leavy said. He said at his trial that he began working to save the planet after being inspired by Vice President Al Gore's movie "An Inconvenient Truth," and the Daniel Quinn novel "Ishmael."

"I don't think it's rational," Leavy said. He called Lee's complaints "ironic, since the whole company is built on celebrating the Earth."

[ Last edited by  haroldla at 3-9-2010 20:26 ]

You must be kidding, is this even news?

US special forces are way better than anybody else, not even close unless you want to split hairs with Israeli or British forces.

Agreed that Philippine SWAT sucks ass, but this is a worthless comparison.

Finally taking responsibilty (no doubt forced to by international public pressure)

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/20 ... led-8-tourists.html


Philippine President Benigno Aquino said today he takes full responsibility for the outcome of the bus siege that killed eight members of a Hong Kong tour group.

“At the end of the day, I’m responsible for everything that has transpired,” in part because he retained direct control of the police when he formed his government in June, Aquino told reporters in Manila. “What happened last week was a wake-up call for our security agencies.”

The eight Hong Kong residents died during a bloody standoff on Aug. 23 when an armed former police officer seized their bus and demanded his job back. Aquino, who was elected in May pledging to improve economic growth by doubling tourism and curbing corruption, is under fire for the handling of the 12- hour siege.

Hong Kong Chief Executive Donald Tsang said after the standoff that he was disappointed with the way the “major tragedy” had been handled, adding he hadn’t been able to get through to Aquino on the telephone at the time.

“The president owning up to this is just one thing,” said Eman Villanueva, secretary-general of the United Filipinos in Hong Kong, an alliance representing thousands of Filipinos who work in the city, many as domestic helpers. “I think the one directing the ground troops on that day has to be identified.”



Eight people dead and he says it's a wake-up call...

[ Last edited by  lister01 at 4-9-2010 09:52 ]

He's only doing this to save his own ass. I don't believe that he truly means it.

save his own ass from what? he will be in power till 2016. he has to take responsibility, thats for sure, it's just that i do not comprehend your line of reasoning

Maybe saving his ass isn't the right word. What I meant is he's trying to save face and repair his reputation. It's taken him this long to come out with an official apology....

at least he had the decency to apologize. the chinese government never apologized for Filipino tourists killed while sightseeing in Tiananmen Square in 2005. see below email circulating now in the Philippines.

On August 19, 2005, Emmanuel "Bong" Madrigal, a Manila-based Filipino executive of the multinational Shell, was visiting Beijing on vacation with his wife Vivian, his daugher Regina Mia, and two younger daughters. That day, they rode a tourist bus to Tiananmen Square, the heart of the capitol.

Upon arriving at the square, Emmanuel Madrigal was the first to descend from the bus, followed by Vivian and Regina Mia. A Chinese man wielding a scythe--in some reports it was described as a sword--suddenly appeared out of nowhere and hacked Emmanuel across his torso. He died on the spot. The man also attacked and seriously wounded Vivian. He then slashed at and killed Regina Mia. By this time, bystanders were trying to subdue the man, and Vivian shouted to her two other daughters to get away and save themselves. Somehow the girls made their way back to the hotel. Vivian was brought to a Beijing hospital, but survived.

An Associated Press report still circulating on the internet states that the killer was Wang Gongzuo, 25, a farmer from eastern China's Jiangsu province. He was sentenced to death for the murder of the Madrigals and executed a few weeks later, in September. The AP report states: 'Wang's motive for killing the two is unclear. After the incident occurred the Beijing Morning Post reported that he had wanted to 'affect society using extreme actions,' but didn't elaborate."

Reflect on the parallels. A family of vacationers on a tourist bus: the Leungs and the Madrigals. A killer out to "affect society using extreme actions": Mendoza and Wang. A massacre in a public place of symbolic significance: The Quirino grandstand, where the presidential inauguration had been held just weeks before, and site of the civil society protests against the Marcos regime; and Tiananmen Square, since ancient times the symbol of the centralized power of the Chinese state, and site of the 1991 civil protests against the government.

In both incidents, the state failed miserably in protecting innocent tourists.

And there the parallels end.

President Aquino has apologized to the families of Mendoza’s victims and conveyed his sorrow to the people of Hongkong, Chief Executive Donald Tsang, and Ambassador Lin Jian Chao. The Philippine National Police acknowledge that they botched matters beyond comprehension. Philippine legislators, ahead of their Hongkong counterparts, called for a full investigation. Philippine media organizations are looking to their own culpability in the affair. And masses of ordinary Filipinos, on TV, radio, print, and the Internet, are expressing collective horror, remorse and pity over the terrible fate of the innocent tourists, and bow their heads in shame before the Hong Kong people's sorrow and anger.

That is how it should be, that is only right. But.

To this day, five years after it happened, there is no public record of any Chinese official acknowledging the tourist killings in Tiananmen Square and apologizing to the Madrigals, much less the Filipino people, for the murder of Emmanuel, Regina Mia and Vivian. Not a single expression of regret that the Chinese police failed in their duty to protect the lives of innocent tourists in the very heart of Beijing, in the symbolic center of a state that prides itself most of all for its ability to control and contain disorder. There was a total blackout on the part of the Chinese press, and, according to another news report, government censors quickly blocked many internet sites where Chinese users had begun to post comments about the killing. So we will likely never know what ordinary Chinese citizens had to say about about the incident. Maybe some of them were actually sorry for what happened.

The closest thing to expressed regret was in fact the final reported action of the killer Wang, who waived his right to appeal the sentence of execution, and got a bullet in the back of his head.

To add to the horror, it would appear that the Arroyo administration was complicit in the silence. No public statement was ever made by the Philippine government regarding the incident. Unlike in Hongkong, no flags were flown at half-mast in Manila, and no three-minute silence was observed to mark the deaths of the innocent Filipino tourists. No demand has ever been made by any Filipino official for an apology, and for an accounting.

A full investigation of the Quirino Grandstand killing is ongoing. But what of that other killing, also in August, five years ago in Tiananmen Square?

Just saw this video on Youtube:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2 ... ure=player_embedded

It is a 'simulation' of what happened, although there seems to be some doubt as to its accuracy. Not even sure where it comes from and to be honest I am not sure why it is on Youtube - do we all really need to see this?

All in all a very sad event, but at least the PI govt hasn't been able to ignore its responsibilities.

Think it's very sad what had happened to the Madrigals but this was an insane act of violence which had taken place very suddenly, very much like the insane shootings at schools in the US. With the current incident I think there was plenty of time to diffuse the situation and people are upset by the way the whole thing was mishandled when they was an opportunity to bring down the gunmen. Insane acts of violence very suddenly can take place anywhere and at anytime and police are not usually never on the scene in time.

[ Last edited by  geoduck at 6-9-2010 10:55 ]

I don't believe this is a fair comparison.

The deaths in Manila were (highly likely) a result of, or exacerbated by, the poor handling of the situation by police. At Tiananmen there was no such 'mistake' on the part of law enforcement. I wouldn't blame the filipinos if the hostage situation was managed appropriately and everyone died but the fact is it wasn't. Both Mendoza and Wang are criminals and got their deserved punishment and neither government is to blame for the actions of radicals. The difference here is how the incident was handled on the day and this is why I feel an apology is in order.

I agree that censorship is not the solution and that China has a duty to report the murders and therefore apologizing for this I think is justified. But its hard to argue when your own govt does nothing:
"To add to the horror, it would appear that the Arroyo administration was complicit in the silence. No public statement was ever made by the Philippine government regarding the incident. Unlike in Hongkong, no flags were flown at half-mast in Manila, and no three-minute silence was observed to mark the deaths of the innocent Filipino tourists. No demand has ever been made by any Filipino official for an apology, and for an accounting." Maybe there was an agreement between govts or smthn.

"the state failed miserably in protecting innocent tourists." In China's defense, I don't agree with this at all.

Your comparison here is often quoted in the Philippine press, and it is used to deflect the criticism being hurled at the current Philippine presidency.

There is absolutely no reasonable way to equate the two situations.  

In the case of the Madrigals, they were killed by an insane man who, by all known accounts, appeared suddenly and started his killing spree.  From third-party accounts, the people around him tried to restrain him and he was quickly captured and turned over to the Chinese authorities.  There was little to investigate, as the cause of death and the identity of the killer is clear.  He was also executed a few weeks afterwards.  China is nothing but efficient at meting out punishment to its wrongdoers.

It is impossible for any authority on Earth to prevent such a tragedy as described above, unless you put a policeman on every street corner, but by all accounts, even this would have proven ineffective against such a deranged killer.

In the case of Manila, the Philippine authorities had 11 hours and countless opportunities to resolve the situation, but they bungled up the job at every opportunity.  The current investigation is showing some serious issues in the presidency, and in particular, the way the President is filling his Cabinet posts.  He is also being stupid, as he should have come out with this apology and taking responsibility immediately, now, he is only going to be castigated as being "forced" into it.  Bad advisers and corrupt friends to an incompetent President is the best way to describe this.

It is not a whitewash, as the person responsible was executed.  This is like blaming the US President for a split-second road rage shooting on the interstate highway.

One last point, and this is important, not every country tries to politicize deaths, murders, and rapes in the front page news.  The Philippines is notorious for it because their media are low-moral vultures.

I remember when the Philippines was trying to kick out the American forces because of an alleged rape case against a few soldiers.  The case was eventually dropped because of the recanting of the girl after she was given a US visa and some other things.

In this case, the entire Philippines was polarized and tried to kick out the US soldiers because of the act of a single US soldier.  Justice they claimed.

Now, the same people are begging the world not to judge the Philippines based on a single crazy Filipino ex-cop.  Double standards or just retarded?  Sometimes in the Philippines it's hard to tell.

As mentioned earlier in this thread, this is yet another excuse for a people that is notorious for making excuses. I don't think it's appropriate for the Philippine press to drag up the story of the Beijing murders in a tit for tat comparison to diffuse and justify the way the situation was handled in Manila.

[ Last edited by  geoduck at 6-9-2010 13:26 ]

just to qualify my post, it is not "my comparison". it is an email circulating, as clearly stated in my post. i posted it for everyone's reference.

Your post is clearly stating it as a comparison, ie, The Philippines "at least" apologized, while China did not.

I don't think China owes the Philippines any apology for something that could not have been reasonably stopped by the Chinese government.  That being said, the Chinese government probably should have apologized to the family of the deceased, and spoken to any appointed representative of the Philipppines.  This was probably done, but no evidence to support or oppose.

I also agree with an earlier post that Aquino is seemingly not sincere in his apology.  It is a classic case of too little, WAY too late.  

His mandate, while strong, is in no way close to majority.  This is obvious is the ramshackle coalitions he is trying to hold together.  It isn't clear that he can last until 2016, as a few more serious missteps can trigger another round of attempted coups and other impeachments, something that became notorious when his mother, also an incompetent president, was nominally in charge.

if you only want to talk about the first line of my post, then yes, it is a comparison. a comparison of the act of apologizing for something untoward that happened in the host country.

your post however, talked about equating the 2 incidents, which implied that "my comparison" was between the situations. that is what i was trying to qualify, that i hold no opinion about the equality of the 2 incidents

If that is your line of reasoning, why should China have to apologize at all?  If you are saying the two incidents are not equal, what is the point of your post?

That AT LEAST the Philippines apologized, but China didn't, but hey wait, the two incidents aren't equal and I didn't say it was?

LOL.

Are you Filipino as well?