I myself has pretty much exposure to Taiwan like you and for someone who has much understanding of Taiwan will know that their people is divided by KMT who support unification and DPP who wants independent. Now about your question "What is the legitimate concern of Taiwanese people?" It just cant be answered as the whole population is divided not unified. If you know then tell me... coz I really like to know what is their legitimate concern.

If Taiwan is to be split out from China, it would be time for WW3..... and if you all bro who said to respect and care about people desire or wish will certainly dont like this to happen. So my conclusion is that taiwan shall unified with china once and for all.

You say that China was never united under one government until Qin Shi Huang conquered the other kingdoms and founded the Qin Dynasty. Very true, but that was 2300 years ago!

[ Last edited by  Marsupial at 11-7-2008 14:00 ]

One thing that all Taiwanese agree on, 外省人 and 本地人, is that they do not want to be governed by a communist dictatorship. If China were a democracy, reunification could be much more easily accomplished.

I can't read chinese so I showed that to Taiwanese friend which said that 外省人 means people from other state while 本地人 mean Local people of that state. I dont know how you get your translation but from his translation it certainly doesn't say about how they dont want to be govern by dictatorship?

Who on earth would choose to be governed by a communist dictatorship?    

One day soon the Chinese people are going to start asking [again] why should they accept a dictatorship when much
of the rest of the world can live under democracy. When that happens, China will start to unravel. Unless, of course,
we have more brutal crackdowns like Tiananmen.  

Who can ever forget this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-nXT8lSnPQ

I thought you knew something about Taiwan. 外省人 and 本地人 are the terms the Taiwanese use to distinguish themselves.  本地人 (literal meaning is 'local people') are those Taiwanese whose ancestors emigrated, several hundred years ago, from Fujian province - directly across the straits from Taiwan. The speak the Minnan dialect of southern Fujian. These 本地人 consider themselves the real Taiwanese. They, especially those from the south of the island, are the hardcore agitators for independence and form the die-hard core of Chen Sui-bian's supporters. They experienced the Japanese occupation, and many of the older ones speak Japanese because forced to in the colonial schools. The locals were treated badly when the KMT arrived in 1949, and the older ones look back with nostalgia to the 50-yr Japanese occupation. This explains the support that Taiwan has always enjoyed in Japan - the Taiwanese are the only Asians who don't hate the Japanese.

The 外省人 (literally meaning 'people from outside provinces') are those who emigrated to Taiwan at a later date from provinces other than Fujian. The 外省人 are mostly Mandarin speakers. Most of them came over with Chiang Kai-chek when he retreated to the island in 1949. The entire KMT government and surviving army, the wealthy, many with their families, most of the art from the Beijing Imperial collections, etc., came along with Chiang. Chiang's horde numbered somewhere in the hundreds of thousands. They considered themselves superior to the locals and treated them poorly. They accused the locals of collaborating with the Japanese when KMT soldiers were dying in battle with the Nips on the mainland. And, in fact, many colonial-period Taiwanese fought in the  Imperial Japanese Army. The KMT immediately crushed the local government and established martial law, which lasted until 1987. There were riots by the local people that were brutally suppressed by the KMT army. The Minnan language was forbidden in the schools (tho not now). There was much bad blood between the two groups and little intermingling.

(The KMT never declared independence because they insisted they were the legitimate rulers of all China and only recently abandoned the fiction that they would someday re-cross the straits to defeat the "communist bandits".)

For the younger generation, the distinction between local and non-local is disappearing, but it is still very important politically and culturally.

So in response to your question:

"What is the legitimate concern of the Taiwanese people? It can't be answered as the whole population is divided not unified."

I stated that despite their ideological differences and their differing attitudes towards reunification, all Taiwanese, locals and non-locals have at least one thing in common: they do not want to be governed by a communist dictatorship.

[ Last edited by  Marsupial at 19-7-2008 00:40 ]

A lot of people choose to live in a dictatorial regime.  Look at Singapore.  The same party has been in power for four decades (the same family too).  It seems voters want it that way because they've voluntarily traded freedom for stability and prosperity.

China will gradually transform in something resembling the West.  You seem to simplistically think something will "unravel"....as if something is about to explode.  Yours are the thoughts of a simpleton.  More complicated thinkers know that the transformation will occur gradually.  Nobody, not even the US or Western nations, wants China to democratize overnight.  It would be too disruptive to trade and commerce for the entire world.  Besides, do we really want 1 billion people, most have whom have little formal education, to vote?!

Granted, China will never be a Western democracy in our lifetimes.  But they will become something more toleratant....kinda like Singapore but on a much larger scale.

I agree with you on translation for 外省人 and 本地人 that reflect Taiwanese society, but what I mean is I can't see there's any relationship between that sentences with do not want to be governed by communist.

Bullshit.  I am not defending my country.  I did not say that the white people did not try to kill off the aborigianl people ini Australia.  Read my comment!  I said that the Aboriginal people are nomadic!  full stop!  Your comment was made in reference to land rights.  There is no defence to what the white settlers did to the Aboriginal people of Australia or the red indians in the US.  This is not the argument.  Don't try and deflect from the core issue.

Of course Aborigal are nomadic but they were the original settler of Australia before white people invaded, take over the land and kill of the people. Now did china invaded tibet and kill off its people? NO... Chinese treated tibetan much better than what Aboriginal people had to endure at that time and if someone said Tibetan shall split out from China then Aboriginal also deserve to be Independent. There you go, that's my point.

I admire your persistence goodjob; you have convinced me that you don't see the relationship.

Or YES. Again, check out this:

http://www.friends-of-tibet.org.nz/index.html

Thanks for your reply.  Marsupial says it all.   Your point is invalid.

what point?

Correct, you didn't make one.  

things are getting heated. lets hope for a peaceful resolution.

Don't worry, heated discussions are good for ratings ...

Watch out Bros.....BIG Bro is watching ALL of us!!!

As Marsupial says: "It's a complicated mess." I also have many Taiwanese friends having lived and worked there years ago and they are also very divided in their opinions and most of their opinions have evolved over the years, especially those who have invested in China. Most of them nowadays are very pragmatic as they have seen China change over the years to become less and less what many of the rest of us consider to be 'Commies'. Personally I find it amazing how China has changed over the last two decades and most of it has been for the better. I would never justify any killing of human beings, but almost everyone who chastizes China for their human rights have just as much blood on their hands from centuries gone by, the Brits in their colonies, the Americans against the Native Americans, the Vikings against just about everybody, the Japanese, the Germans etc etc
I tend to agree with Jake as usual. Government is supposed to be 'by the people, for the people'. There are too many governments around the world which should be chucked out and China is nowhere near the worst IMHO. At least it is gradually changing for the better, which is more than you can say for many dictatorships in Africa and The Middle East and as far as I'm concerned George W. Bush should be hauled up before a war crimes commission. He has totally fucked up what used to be the greatest country in the world both politically and economically. Fuck him!
Let Scotland be independant along with Quebec, the Basque Country, Tibet and Tasmania (did someone say they want to be free from Australia? It's the first time I've heard this, but you all get my point.)
I have some Norwegian friends who told me that Scandinavia was all one country until 1905 when they split up quite amicably and they have all prospered in one way or another in spite of Bjork.
And, oh yeah, let's make Tin Shui Wai a separate country while we're at it.
This has been very interesting and educational. Have a great weekend, bros!

[ Last edited by  Siklong69 at 18-7-2008 23:11 ]

Looks like everyone went to Tin Shui Wai! LOL.