OK, the .... "go rob an old lady" was a cheap shot for which I apologise.

But I will repeat, for the very, very last time. I have NEVER said WGs are bad girls, I have  NEVER said I despise them, I
have  NEVER said they are engaged in any kind of criminal activity, I have NEVER said they are not good or decent or
honest. Everything is on record here so, if I've ever said any of those things, please point it out to me. And that goes
for Mars. But please don't INFER it from something I said. If I want to say something, I just say it. What I have said,
many times, is that I like WGs and, if you read some of my reports, I often describe a gal as a decent, honest WG who
has earned her money - if she's done a good job.

Marsupial has been misinterpreting me from the very first post and now you're dong the same. Actually, I think he just
lumped me and sexpert together and attributed all sexpert's comments to me. Don't try to infer what I mean or guess
what I think. I'm a very simple, straightforward guy who calls a spade a spade. I say what I think and you don't need to
infer anything because I never imply anything - I just say it.

And I'm definitely not one to ... "discard those who have different opinions". That's Mars, not me.

ALL I HAVE EVER SAID is that, IMHO, WGs have lower morals than an honest girl who chooses not to be WGs. Now Mars
will interpret that to mean I think WGs are not honest - but that is not what is says and that is not what it means. A girl
can choose not to be a WG but, if she's a thieving, lying, dishonest bitch, then she probably has lower morals than an
honest WG. That's why I add the word 'honest'. I can't simply say a WG is less moral than a girl who is not a WG because
that obviously wouldn't be true. Now, if you think, like Marsupial seems to think, that choosing to be a WG says nothing
at all about a girls morals - then, fine, we simply have a difference of opinion. Personally, I think that ALL the important
choices we make in life say something about our morals.

I agree with you about the morality thing. I agree that many financial sharks are not moral and I have always made a very
clear distinction between morality and legality. One really can often have very little to do with the other. I agree that some
criminals can be moral and many who never break the law can be totally immoral.

This debate should force us to ask ourselves about how we view the WGs. Although everyone may have his own views, I do believe it does tell something about ourselves. I like to believe that WGs are in their profession mainly by choice (although there must be many cases where this is not true). I believe that WGs are as human as we are and do deserve our respects until proven otherwise. Morality is a very subjective issue. (and of course, we can always agree to disagree)

Tho it is true that much of what I've said is aimed at sexpert's admittedly more extreme position, I have not willfully misinterpreted what you have written.

"I have NEVER said I despise WGs"

I never accused you of despising WGs. My comment was clearly aimed at the general mongering community.

"I have NEVER said they are engaged in any kind of criminal activity"

I never said you did. I did accuse you of a sneaky comparison of WGs to criminals, but I've already admitted to having misread your post.

"I have NEVER said they are not good or decent or honest."

Ah, but you have.

"ALL I HAVE EVER SAID is that, IMHO, WGs have lower morals than an honest girl who chooses not to be a WG. Now Mars will interpret that to mean I think WGs are not honest - but that is not what is says and that is not what it means."

Of course I interpret it that way! Jake, regardless of the subject under discussion; from a purely rhetorical point of view, the above sentence clearly implies that you think WGs are not honest. You do this sort of thing repeatedly throughout your posts, and then you deny that you mean what you have clearly implied. Otherwise, why use the word honest? You should have said "ALL I HAVE EVER SAID is that, IMHO, WGs have lower morals than a girl who chooses not to be WG." The word 'honest' clearly serves to imply a lack of honesty in WGs. This is a well-known rhetorical device. And if you were the straight talker you say you are, you wouldn't resort to this verbal tactic.

If I said, "Blacks have lower morals than good, clean, upright White people" how would you understand that sentence?

"Well boss, you could hire Jake, or you could go with the hard-working, honest, responsible Marsupial."

So when you say in post #26

"Of course, I'm sure there are WGs who might become good wives but in this life you have to play the odds. And the odds against it are so high that we should advise Miguel to leave this WG and find a girl who has made better choices in her life. I know and respect so many honest, hardworking girls, stuggling to make a living, but they don't make the choice to become a WG just to make a lot of quick, easy money. How can I respect such girls when they have no respect for themselves? They'll suck and fuck any man who gives them a few hundred dollars."

That clearly says that you don't respect WGs because they are not honest, hardworking girls struggling to make a living. Otherwise why qualify the non-WGs as honest and hard-working? Why didn't you just write: I know and respect so many girls, stuggling to make a living, who don't make the choice to become a WG....? Can't you see the difference in those two sentences?

in post #65 you say:

"I was taught that hard work is a virtue. I was taught that, if you want something in this life, you go out and work for it. Nobody gives you anything. A decent day's work for a decent day's pay. I see WGs circumventing everything I was taught. As I said before, once a week I see a pretty, decent hard-working girl in my local Wellcome store. So, do I respect a WG earning $60,000 to $100,000 per month as much as I respect this poor shop girl earning maybe $10,000 per month. The answer is NO, I don't."

Here the comparison to the 'decent, hard-working girl' in the Wellcome store says that WGs are neither decent nor hard-working. Otherwise why stress the Wellcome girl's decency? And how do you know that she is decent? Clearly you think she is decent because she's working a regular job, meaning that WGs because of their profession are, by definition, not decent.

If you say you didn't really mean to imply any of these things, then all I can say is that it must be your unconscious mind that is writing these posts.

But of course, I see the difference between your and sexpert's position. And I don't think anybody thinks you're a whore-hater. And I know that you are a straight-forward guy who speaks his mind. Hell, anybody who objects to the mistreatment of animals is already well on his way to Buddhahood as far as I am concerned (not sarcasm).

But you do display the conventional moral bias towards prostitutes - tho you are a sufficiently complex character that this doesn't cause you the least amount of  difficulty. I would accuse you of hypocrisy but you freely admit to having moral standards as low as the girls you visit - tho oddly you think a married guy visiting prostitutes can still be a good husband/father; tho an unmarried girl selling sex could never become a good wife/mother.

Analysis well taken. However, I don't think bro. Jake is purposely degrading the WGs. We should just agree that people have differing views and values. Some of us place more value in the characters of the WGs than others, which is fine. Just like we have differing taste in women, we can certainly differ in our view about the ladies that service us.

I don't think for a second that Jake harbors any antipathy toward WGs - far from it.

It's not that I ... "didn't really mean to imply any of these things ...". The fact remains ... I didn't imply them at all - you inferred them.

I can't stop you doing that, but I will paraphrase your sentence.

If you didn't really mean to interpret my comments so incorrectly, then all I can say is that it must be your unconscious mind that is reading these posts.

What you really think is revealed in your comment ...


You really believe, in your subconcious mind, that we ALL hate WGs and it's with that already in your mind that you read my comments.
And that's why you interpret what I write in the way you do. Your interpretation merely matches what you already believe.

How can you say that after everything you've accused me of???????

Jake there is even a technical term for the kind of rhetorical device that appears in your posts - it escapes me at the moment, but it is a well documented, commonly used technique to express an opinion without directly seeming to. It is discussed in textbooks on rhetoric. Politicians use it all the time.

No I don't believe that all guys despise WGs - I meant that this attitude is not uncommon. I have no idea what percentage of guys hold this opinion, but it is not rare. We've seen many instances of this here in the forum.

[ Last edited by  Marsupial at 31-1-2008 16:52 ]

Mars, I'm just not that clever. I don't even know what rhetoric means.  

I have never thought of you as hating or despising anyone. We obviously differ as to what, if anything, can be deduced about the character of a WG from the nature of her profession - anything else is just the usual shit that happens when two people disagree in a forum.

Isn't rhetoric something you take to make yourself puke when you've inadvertantly swallowed some poison?
BTW I have really enjoyed this thread, thanks for the entertainment guys. Whether we like it or not and whether we
agree or not, society in general considers both us mongerers and our beloved WGs to be moral pymies.
(Now please don't anyone accuse me of disparaging pygmies!)

Nah, you're thinking of a hermetic.

But why should society consider us 'pymies'? - Jake maybe, but I'm not English.

I meant pygmies, not pommies. I'll have to look up hermetic, but it doesn't sound right to me.

Online Etymology Dictionary - Cite This Source - Share This
hermetic  

1605 (implied in hermetically), "completely sealed," also (1637) "dealing with occult science or alchemy," from L. hermeticus, from Gk. Hermes, god of science and art, among other things, identified by Neoplatonists, mystics, and alchemists with the Egyptian god Thoth as Hermes Trismegistos "Thrice-Great Hermes," who supposedly invented the process of making a glass tube airtight (a process in alchemy) using a secret seal.

Back to the original thread. Over the decades I have had three friends marry WGs, one here and two in Bangkok. So far they seem OK and I haven't heard any rumours about any of the girls getting any side action and all three men are devoted to their wives. I guess, however, there may be fears on both sides which might not be there if the girls had come from other backgrounds. I have to admit that a lot of friends advised the men against their choices at the time of their marriages, but I'm happy for them that
things worked out. A 'mixed' girl called Jenny who used to work in National Court, who I visited several times, always told me she was saving money to retire back to Malaysia,
but recently I heard from another girl that she married a local guy here and now lives in Mongkok as a housewife. I have often wondered what her reaction would be
if we were to meet in the street or the MTR. What would the protocol be?

[ Last edited by  Siklong69 at 3-2-2008 08:46 ]

So you visited Jenny too eh ?
I also heard she's married and living in HK ... if I ever bumped into her somewhere all I'd do
is maybe give her a smile when nobody's looking  - unless she approachs me (provided I'm alone)
I will not approach her.

Siklong69 bro it was a joke. I know what hermetic means. Your word for a substance that induces vomiting is emetic; but I thought you knew that and were just punning on the word rhetoric. I thought I was being funny: hermetic sounds like emetic, no? Ah well.

And I suppose I better clarify that I deliberately misunderstood your 'pymie' for 'limy'.

Bro, nobody ever gets your jokes - I guess you're just not very funny.

I mean - a play on words between ... hermetic and emetic? Who's gonna get that joke?

That's what passes for humor around the Marsupial household - pretty pathetic, I admit. So in future, I'll skip the jokes and just concentrate on the sermons.

At least 'limy' didn't offend you. It was either that or pun on the word 'pymie' with a certain ethnic slur that was sure to upset someone.

Nah, Limey's a great word - just another example of how clever and resourceful we Englsih are. While all the other European
sailors were dropping like flies from scurvy, the English would suck on a lime a day and sail around the world to conquor the
heathens and steal their land. That's why you're an American bro.