Subject: HK tourists got killed in the Philippines
  This thread has been closed by sexyloser at 18-5-2024 10:39. 
hunter (Real Slim Slapper-Status: 九叔 .)
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Post at 24-8-2010 23:13  Profile P.M. 
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Reply #40 twiceAweek's post

Prolly the fili SWAT team was so dumb that their bullets actually killed some of the hostages!!!

dumb fuck..




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waikeekee (WKK)
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Post at 24-8-2010 23:19  Profile P.M. 
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1) Lost of innocent life - I pay my deepest condolence to the family of those that lost their lives.

2) I salute the late Mr. Leung who tried to save another by shielding another person from the gunshot. HE IS A REAL HERO.

3) I agree with Twice, 70 agonizing minutes to get into that DAMN bus is utterly and totally UNACCEPTABLE.

4) I agree with Hunter, Snipers (note! prural and not singular) should have taken the shot and shoot to kill Mendoza when they had the chance in bright daylight.

5) Not here to condemn the Philippines Police Force but I DO condemn MENDOZA. Serve him right to be lying in a morgue right now.

6) On another note, the Philippines Police Force REALLY have not done a good job, ya rite! What Job?

7) One question! How does one break a boulder with a screwdriver, WTF!!! Using a sledge Hammer to break the Iron/Glass Bus's Door. Wouldn't the noise alert MENDOZA?

8) His Excellency BA III - How are you going to clean up this mess?




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twiceAweek
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Post at 24-8-2010 23:24  Profile P.M. 
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Reply #41 hunter's post

that part on who's bullets - I'm sure there'll be a cover up !

They didn't even have ladders to climb on to the bus !
has to stand on someone's shoulders to climb in !!!
the foreign minister said the police were not well equipped ... I guess ladders are pretty expensive over there !

if this happened on a plane ... what ? > they need acrobats to lift them in ?
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hunter (Real Slim Slapper-Status: 九叔 .)
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Post at 24-8-2010 23:47  Profile P.M. 
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Reply #43 twiceAweek's post

What is it with you and the airplane?


The penetration into the bus sucks with their supid methods; sledgehammer to window
tying rope to door the opposite direction.
Too much time wasted causing more casualty.
I must say they are not exactly sharpest knives in the drawer.




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twiceAweek
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Post at 24-8-2010 23:52  Profile P.M. 
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something doean't make any sense here ...

the idiots arrested by force, the guy's brother in full sight of the bus ...
anyone with some tiny grey matter between their ears would surely
think of action like this would irritate (to put it mildly) the gunman ...
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twiceAweek
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Post at 24-8-2010 23:53  Profile P.M. 
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Reply #44 hunter's post

those knives wouldn't even break a balloon !
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hunter (Real Slim Slapper-Status: 九叔 .)
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Post at 24-8-2010 23:58  Profile P.M. 
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Reply #45 twiceAweek's post

All specualtion now but unfavourable to Fili govt.

For all I know,  the police didn't want to kill their own guy, gave him chances to walk away but at the expense of these lives.

Fucking tragedy!!


HK should have send over the heroine Ah Sum in disguise from  GZ police Dept to sort out the situation once and for all....shoot to kill at point blank.
Watch the you tube i posted this afternoon.




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JckJr
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Post at 25-8-2010 00:25  Profile P.M. 
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BBC agrees

Ten things the Philippines bus siege police got wrong

A security analyst who has worked in counter-terrorism with the British Army and Scotland Yard, Charles Shoebridge, says the officers involved in Manila's bus siege showed great courage - but they were not properly trained or equipped for the task.

Here are 10 areas where, in his view, they could have done better.

1. Determination

The first officers who tried to storm the bus were driven out by gunshots from the hostage taker, former policeman Rolando Mendoza. "They showed great courage to go on board. It's very crowded, just one aisle down the middle of the bus. But once you get on board it's not unexpected you are going to be fired at. Squads like this have to be made up of very special people, specially trained and selected for their characteristics of courage, determination and aggression. In this case they acted as 99% of the population would have, which was to turn round and get out. They didn't seem to have the necessary determination and aggression to follow the attack through."

2. Lack of equipment

The police spent a long time smashing the windows of the bus, whereas explosive charges (known as frame charges) would have knocked in windows and doors instantly. "They had no ladders to get through the windows. They smashed the windows but didn't know what to do next," Mr Shoebridge says. "They almost looked like a group of vandals." Their firearms were also inappropriate - some had pistols, some had assault rifles. Ideally they would have carried a short submachine gun, suitable for use in confined spaces.

3. Lost opportunity to disarm the gunman

There were numerous opportunities to restrain the gunman, Mr Shoebridge believes. "The negotiators were so close to him, and he had his weapon hanging down by his side. He could have been disabled without having to kill him."

4. Lost opportunity to shoot the gunman

The video of the drama also shows there were occasions when the gunman was standing alone, during the course of the day, and could have been shot by a sharpshooter. "You are dealing with an unpredictable and irrational individual. The rule should be that if in the course of negotiations an opportunity arises to end the situation decisively, it should be taken," Mr Shoebridge says. Either this possibility did not occur to the officers in charge, he adds, or they considered it and decided to carry on talking.

5. Satisfying the gunman's demands

"I wondered why the authorities just didn't give in to all of his demands," says Charles Shoebridge. "A promise extracted under force is not a promise that you are required to honour. Nobody wants to give in to the demands of terrorists, but in a situation like this, which did not involve a terrorist group, or release of prisoners, they could have just accepted his demands. He could be reinstated in the police - and then be immediately put in prison for life for hostage taking." The Philippines authorities did in fact give in to the gunman's demands, but too little, too late. One message promised to review his case, while he wanted it formally dismissed. A second message reinstating him as a police offer only arrived after the shooting had started.

6. Televised proceedings

The gunman was able to follow events on television, revealing to him everything that was going on around him. This was a "crucial defect in the police handling", Mr Shoebridge says. He adds that police should always consider putting a barrier or screen around the area, to shield the scene from the cameras and keep the hostage taker in the dark.

7. No element of surprise

It was clear to the gunman what the police were doing at all times, not only because the whole incident was televised, but also because they moved "laboriously slowly", Mr Shoebridge says. The police did not distract him, so were unable to exploit the "crucial element of surprise".

8. Safeguarding the public

At least one bystander was shot, possibly because the public was allowed too close. The bullet from an M16 rifle, as carried by the gunman, can travel for about a mile, so preventing any risk of injury would have been difficult, Mr Shoebridge says, but a lot more could have been done. "When you saw the camera view from above, it was clear there was little command and control of the public on the ground," he says.

9. Using the gunman's brother to negotiate

Relatives and close friends can be a double-edged sword, Mr Shoebridge says. While they may have leverage over the hostage taker, what they are saying cannot be easily controlled. In this case, the gunman's brother was included in the negotiations - however, at a certain stage he became agitated and police started to remove him from the scene. The gunman saw this on television, and became agitated himself. According to one report he fired a warning shot.

10. Insufficient training

In some parts of the Philippines, such as Mindanao, hostage taking is not an uncommon occurrence, so the country has some forces that are well trained in the necessary tactics. The detachment involved in Monday's incident clearly was not, says Mr Shoebridge. After smashing the windows, one of the officers eventually put some CS gas inside, though "to what effect was not clear" he says. A unit involved in this work, needs to be "trained again and again, repeatedly practising precisely this kind of scenario," he says.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-11069616
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markreyes
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Post at 25-8-2010 00:33  Profile P.M. 
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Reply #35 headpunter85's post

You are completely and totally wrong.

Just because there are more terrorist threats reported in the Philippines than in HK, does not mean that the Philippine authorities are better equipped to handle the situation.

Several reasons stand out why this tragedy happened:

1) wrongful delegation of command from the top, to personnel not equipped or trained for these emergencies
2) idiotic Philippine media who literally broadcast the moves of the government to the hostage taker inside the bus, including live video feed of troop movement around the bus
3) Lack of training of the police force
4) Lack of equipment in the police force

There are others, but not necessary to list.  All the people I know in the Philippines are horrified that their police force blundered again and again during this situation.  They are likewise angry at the President for being hands-off, aloof, and unsympathetic about resolving the situation.  

The Philippines is ill-equipped to counter any terrorist attack, whether in the city, or in the provinces.  The stories you tell about successful recoveries are more of ransom-for-freedom situations, where they did not employ tactics, but money to try and buy themselves out of trouble.

The Hong Kong government has special units trained in anti-terrorism, they are called the SDU and to some extent, the Airport police, the guys you see in black berets and automatic weapons in the airport.  They receive far more training and are far better equipped to deal with any terrorist threat.

In any case, if this happened in Hong Kong, at least Donald Tsang would phone the Philippine president to apologize and give an account of what happened.  In this case, the idiotic Philppine president didn't even bother to receive the call of Donald Tsang, he basically avoided him.  I live here, but sometimes I have to say that these islands deserve an atomic nuke to increase the quality of the global gene pool.
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Post at 25-8-2010 00:48  Profile P.M. 
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QUOTE:
Originally posted by markreyes at 25-8-2010 00:33
They are likewise angry at the President for being hands-off, aloof, and unsympathetic about resolving the situation.  .

Then why did you guys vote for this idiot? Was he the best presidential candidate you could find? If yes, there's a serious problem over there. Wish terrorist would kidnap him. Sure that would wipe that condescending smirk off his face when he tried to cover up for the police.
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markreyes
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Post at 25-8-2010 00:55  Profile P.M. 
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Reply #50 geoduck's post

I can't vote.  And no, I would never have voted for this autistic, arrogant, useless guy for President of a Boy Scout troop, let alone a country.

He won based on the campaign promise of "Mommy & Daddy", where his mother was a former President (a useless one as well), and his father was a Hero (this one is true).  

He ran on a platform of absolutely nothing except revenge and change (against the previous President).  

Prior to winning the election, he had accomplished nothing in his life, not even rising beyond nominal VP in his family-owned corporation.  In his terms as congressman and senator, he authored zero bills.  His most solid work experience was selling Nike shoes and accessories to local stores.  

As I said, a nuke here would improve the global gene pool.  Pathetic.
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Post at 25-8-2010 01:01  Profile P.M. 
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QUOTE:
Originally posted by markreyes at 25-8-2010 00:55
He won based on the campaign promise of "Mommy & Daddy", where his mother was a former President (a useless one as well), and his father was a Hero (this one is true).  

He ran on a platform of absolutely nothing except revenge and change (against the previous President).  

Prior to winning the election, he had accomplished nothing in his life, not even rising beyond nominal VP in his family-owned corporation.

I rest my case. Sounds like the electorate in the Philippines is the same as the red neck Republicans that voted for BUSH
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Post at 25-8-2010 01:30  Profile P.M. 
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the TV news talks about this news today - in the video, it clearly shows that the polices threw light sticks into the bus at night. what are they doing?? They dont even have something like night vision googles??? It is totally ridiculous in there!!!! i think even boy scout can do better than their so called SWAT team... and their Police Dept still saying they are doing a good job!!!!!!!!

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woraix   4-8-2012 18:49  Karma  +3   Original
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DArtagnan (unofficial Mayor of the Forum)
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Post at 25-8-2010 09:20  Profile P.M. 
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Reply #20 hunter's post

Very interesting ...

Certainly she took decisive action ... and I'd clearly rather be a hostage in PRC than in Manila ...

But I think the contrast with this other video shows the difference in training and skill between PRC / Philli SWAT and Western SWAT:-
   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGe1zb1wAlY&has_verified=1

In the Chinese example there's a chance the hostage taker could have reacted - the policewoman was fast, but she still had to draw, and judging by the multiple shots the first shot was not fatal - this is important because the first bullet must enter the head in a triangle between the eyebrows and the nose to eliminate the possibility possibility of voluntary muscle-movement, just enough to pull a trigger or slash with a knife.  

In the US example the hostage taker literally never knew what hit him, he just went down with a paralysing head-shot from a distance.  He won't even have heard the bullet.




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asianman888
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Post at 25-8-2010 10:38  Profile P.M. 
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Reply #54 DArtagnan's post

I'm not sure if that's US Swat, sounds and looks like somewhere in Mexico or South America. Still, excellent shot. They needed that sniper in the Philippines
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Post at 25-8-2010 14:06  Profile P.M. 
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Reply #20 hunter's post

That's a pretty sick video.

11 hours and they couldn't neutralize 1 target. Give a Seal or SAS team, hell even NYPD's ESU, 11 hours and they could probably occupy half of Manila. Disgraceful conduct.

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JckJr   25-8-2010 18:21  Acceptance  +1   keystone cops woulda done it better
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alex881
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Post at 25-8-2010 19:12  Profile P.M. 
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Reply #56 12uronin's post

HAHA Headpunter, i do agree with a few of your points, but since you are so horrendously outnumbered, i'm not getting in to this right now.
One thing I would like to say though, is that it is not the fault of the police if they don't have enough training or equipment, balme the phillipines for being a third world country. A big reason why they couldn't get big equipment like ladders through was because of the crowd, now as someone raised earlier in the forum, if this happened in China, I don't think the cops would hesistate to use tear gas on the crowd, but each country has their own rules of engagement.
I think the cops gave up on negotiation too soon after the initail sucsess of getting the children released, they shouldn't of screwed with the hostage taker's.
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geoduck
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Post at 25-8-2010 19:34  Profile P.M. 
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Reply #57 alex881's posts

Your premise about the police not being able to get a ladder through the crowd and that China will use tear gas to disperse a crowd of onlookers is absurd. If the the police weren't capable of crowd control at the scene, how would they ever be able to rescue any hostages in the first place.
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twiceAweek
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Post at 25-8-2010 23:55  Profile P.M. 
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Reply #57 alex881's post

but you are getting into this ... and what's wrong with being out numbered ?
if one have valid points then there's little anyone can tell you otherwise ... but if one
makes clueless statements on a subject that's emotional then suffer the consequences !

as for your statement that "ladders weren't available because of the crowd" is a good
example of being clueless ...

The gunman might have pulled the trigger but its the inept handling
by the Philippine government that killed the hostages !
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Post at 26-8-2010 00:04  Profile P.M. 
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Reply #59 twiceAweek's post

Heartless Bastard Mendoza probably pulled the trigger and killed most of the hostages, I agree. However right now, forensics are doing expanded rounds and bullets head analysis to confirm who shot who. I will not be surprised that a few hostages were killed or have been shot by the Police.

It's PERIOD and confirm - the Police were imcompetent useless Monkeys in Uniform. Feel really lost and sorry for the victims and their families.




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