tps
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Post at 16-2-2014 12:33  Profile P.M. 
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try Jakarta...
Its even more exciting than CP and cheaper (considering the IDR rupiah has depreciated so much..)
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kaleu
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Post at 16-2-2014 14:23  Profile P.M. 
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QUOTE:
Originally posted by AsnDragon at 16-2-2014 04:28
Weelock--- Personally, I think the sex trade in DG is more than 10% of it's GDP. Sure there are places like Chang An and Houjie that have thriving factories of different tech and textile sectors. Howe ...

An interesting argument!

I think maybe you are putting the tail before the dog, as the expression goes.  DG became a manufacturing town not because of the sex trade but because of the proximity to the SAR.  And because it's pretty much always been a shithole, so cheaper than SZ.  The 5 star hotels were built to support the foreigners and Chinese businessmen that came to town, not to support the sex industry.  You can see the same thing happening in northern cities that have built new factories.  Go to Fujian province and look at the hotels they have built recently.  There is no reason for hotels like that to exist in some cities, except for the factories that moved there 5 years ago.

DG is too expensive now to manufacture many things if you are smart in the ways of China.  If you are a new new company or don't have experience in China, it's a relatively civilized and safe place to get things made.  It's much less of a headache.

CEOs don't give a rats ass about the amount of sex available near their factories. They care about price, and they almost never have to go there.  That's why it moved from Taiwan to China, and why it's now leaving China for Vietnam, Laos, and Cambodia.  

The sex trade follows the money, not the other way around.

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TonyCheong   17-2-2014 02:31  Acceptance  +1   Well said!
obe   16-2-2014 14:39  Karma  +5   Valid points
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Weelock
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Post at 16-2-2014 14:47  Profile P.M. 
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Reply #17 AsnDragon's post

The crackdown on Dongguan's vice trade may cost city businesses, including hotels, shops and restaurants, at least 50 billion yuan (HK$63.5 billion) - or one-tenth of the local economy - analysts said

----cut----

----cut----

"Fifty billion yuan is a general estimate by many research institutes of the volume of Dongguan's sex trade."

----cut---

---cut---

"It's a reasonable estimate, but I'm afraid the actual figure could be even higher," said Lin. "It will have a serious impact on the local economy.
==============================================================

AsnDragon,

You are correct. The article gave a consevative estimate of 10% (one-tenth of the local economy) analysts said  but figure could be even higher.
I heard rumors that many of the hotels in CP were only 25% to 30% full for last week.
  Weekend should be better but they don't know yet since
the weekend has not ended.

[ Last edited by  Weelock at 16-2-2014 14:53 ]

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AsnDragon   16-2-2014 15:39  Karma  +1   Agreed!
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AsnDragon
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Post at 16-2-2014 15:46  Profile P.M. 
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Reply #22 kaleu's post

Kaleu,


You do have valid points. Sex does follow where the money is. However, I did say that in the early days HK and Taiwan and Japanese businessmen started up factories in DG because of cheap land and incentive. However, the local govt allowed the sex trade to prosper to retain the factory owners because it was quite boring in DG. I personally know because living in Tangxia back in the early 2000's where it was much better than the 90's already was still so boring if not for the KTVs and such. So yes, sex trade did come later. However, as DG expanded, many people who came in later sometimes do come set up companies in DG because of the sex trade.

I have  personally dealt with a handful of Taiwanese businessmen and HK businessmen who set up factories and companies in DG that don't earn any money, but do so as an excuse from their wife to come to DG to monger. This was in the early 2000's. However, in the 90's people primarily came not because of the sex trade. But in the latter years many did and do come to DG to set up companies as a way to monger away from home. It was the Hk and Taiwanese and Japanese, and then it became malaysians and Singaporeans.

But you are right, in the beginning it was the sex trade that followed where the money was. But I believe the local govt allowed sex trade to flourish to retain and keep those factory owners happy and to attract more businessmen to the region later on.


AsnDragon

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kaleu   16-2-2014 23:39  Karma  +3   I agree that's why they allowed it.
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maonana
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Reply #21 tps's post

For prc girl. Jakarta is still very expensive. And the one comes to jakarta already left over from China. Similar to second division football player. Most of them are 25+ even in alexis. And we cannot BO them easily and with decent price for KTV WG like in CP. Jakarta sucks for PRC girl !!! To BO PRC WG from top Jkt KTV such as Suncity / Sense, it would cost us nearly 4000 RMB, and they still expect some tips....
Can you imagine that ??

PRC girl in Jakarta attitude is so poor. They dont want to work hard to please customer but expect high paid. Already contaminated with indo's culture. Different from what i got in CP 2 months ago. They are really committed to please customer.

Hope CP will back to normal soon. CP rules !!!

@tps : can you mention the name of the place in jakarta, where we can get excited and cheap PRC WG??

[ Last edited by  maonana at 16-2-2014 19:26 ]

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kaleu   17-2-2014 18:37  Acceptance  +1   I hope you will continue this BBK discussion in the RotW forum. Thanks
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mvp.carlos
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Reply #20 jsmithj88's post

Dear bro,

In Bangkok there are not Japanese and Korean gals, just tourists gal.About language, the only girls can speak a little English are isan girls and normally they are
not nice, and the ratchada areas that it is not centralized, just can find nice gals but just some places bz many girls from north mix chinese. Also actually Bkk
business is going down as it has had demonstration from December, so most place in bkk very empty and no too many gals, it not same four or three years ago. I live in bkk and share with CP so I have no dude DG area much better than bkk, Chinese in DG pretty nice than Bangkok

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kaleu   17-2-2014 18:36  Acceptance  +1   I hope you will continue this BBK discussion in the RotW forum. Thanks
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mrfast
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Reply #26 mvp.carlos's post

In BKK - the quality is low in agogos and fishbowl because the really high quality local girls go to gentlemen club where spending is high (minimally probably 3500-4000 THB for a night of fun per pax). They are not expected to go back with guys, and I think if they do the LT is 4000THB and above
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jsmithj88
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Reply #26 mvp.carlos's post

i guess we hold separate opinions
i definately find higher value in bkk over CP
the ability to travel around bkk and find what i want has more appeal
speaking chinese is almost a necessity to do that in CP
from the time i first travelled to CP to currently, prices have definately shot up
but quality has not followed, but the same can be said to bkk

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kaleu   17-2-2014 18:35  Acceptance  +1   I hope you will continue this BBK discussion in the RotW forum. Thanks
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mrfast
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Reply #28 jsmithj88's post

Could you give a breakdown in RoW about your experiences and a FAQ in BKK?

It would be mighty useful

Do you party at G-Clubs or mainly the agogos?
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mvp.carlos
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Reply #29 mrfast's post

About Bangkok, I have been here from 2009 so I am gonna tell you clear what I think.

G -club do not show up there, it is the most stupid way to spend money, most famous in Sukhumvit amd Ekamai, you just go there take membership drinking with gals and at the end pay very expensive bill going slepping alone.

agogos cheap and gals no nice, in my opinion dirty.

Best go the lord group massage parlour Long Beach or the Lord and you can enjoys better than g-club and agogo, of course depend the gal depend price.

Watch out with Bangkok gals most of them uses a heavy make up, they  are very different without make up, I recomend meeting Thai-Chinese as are nicier.

Watch out, Bangkok number one a lot of Katoy, do not chose wrongly.
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mrfast
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Reply #30 mvp.carlos's post

I have seen the gals in the pics at g-clubs and they are top drawer. If you go to the Singaporean forum for mongering you can see real-life pics of them gals.

it's true that it's not true mongering since you can't always take them back, but rather are just paying for "sitting fee", but I saw the prices and if you monger in CP, it's actually cheaper than going to a KTV. In CP you will spend roughly 350-500 RMB on drinks in a KTV (which is around 2000-2500baht), and it costs cheapest 1200 RMB to take home. The price is roughly 4000 baht(800RMB) for drinks including the gals drinks per visit to a g-club, and if the gal also is around 4000 baht overnight if you score with them. So it's actually cheaper.

But anyway you don't recommend g-club or agogo but rather just massage parlors? so there's nothing like a KTV where you get to hook up with a gal in a club like setting?
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mvp.carlos
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Post at 18-2-2014 22:09  Profile P.M. 
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G-club Cezch ekamai i used to be member, cheaper membership 20.000 baht, 8 botle of black level.

But if you go and you stay about 3 hours in vip room for exemple and a girs midium price you bill will be aproximately 6.000 bht and that s it so you have to
go many time so some girls can trusth in you so you could take away but no sure and you should pay almost 3.000 baht depend girl.

Massage Parlour you can take midium price girls two round I mean 3 hours, price 4000 x 2 =8.000 plus , room with jacusi,karoeke, alcohol and sex. I think better
deal

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kaleu   18-2-2014 23:27  Karma  -2   I asked you politley, as did others, to have your conversation in the correct forum.
maonana   18-2-2014 22:42  Acceptance  +1   king of bangkok
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mrfast
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Reply #32 mvp.carlos's post

Wow i didn't know about the MP having jacuzzi, Karaoke etc. How are the gals? Can you do a write up in the Rest of the World section of the forum?
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Pinoyguy
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Post at 18-2-2014 23:11  Profile P.M. 
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Beijing

I went to a popular massage place near yonganli station on subway line 1.  I'm a regular there and not being specific on purpose.  In the past, they covered the small glass window on the door with your clothes (when you hang them up).  But today, they did not allow that and anyone passing by could see inside the room.  My therapist still gave me a quick HJ, but I mean real quick.  Less that 2min and she said go quick!  So perhaps you can get more HE on an outcall, but even in Beijing, the massage places are getting jittery.
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kaleu
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Post at 18-2-2014 23:32  Profile P.M. 
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Unfortunately, this thread has gotten too of topic.  So it was moved.

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MickJag   21-2-2014 16:04  Acceptance  +6   Yea, we started with DG economy and ended up with Beijing Hand jobs. We've got a way of wandering...
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austin821
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Post at 28-2-2014 12:43  Profile P.M. 
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I was in Chang An last week and all the bars were shut down. Even the bar in the Hiayat

I found out yesterday that some of the bars have started to open again this week.

Lucky I had some contacts on the phone
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Weelock
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Post at 19-3-2014 21:41  Profile P.M. 
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An update of the economics of the raid from NY Times March 6

“In Dongguan, two out of five people will lose their jobs if the situation doesn’t return to normal,” said Lin Yadong, a club manager.


Wee


http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/0 ... ty.html?hp&_r=2


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



DONGGUAN, China — His cellphone is not ringing. His online chat programs sit idle. His condoms stay wrapped. People are no longer approaching Denny to pay for sex.

“In Dongguan, we have something called Dongguan-style service,” the young man with dyed brown hair said as he sat in a hotel restaurant, agreeing to speak on the condition that only his English nickname be used. “It’s the sex capital. It has a reputation. It’s as if you have ISO 9000 certification” — a reference to an international quality standard for service industries of all kinds.

“Now it’s all stopped,” he said.

China is undergoing the harshest anti-vice campaign the government has mounted in years, and the crackdown is taking a toll on the economy of Dongguan, a southern city of more than eight million people. It is a manufacturing center for the export business and a Mecca for migrant workers, but it is also the nation’s sin city. Now, the red-light industry here is blushing a deep pink.

Nightclubs and massage parlors, whether in five-star hotels or shadowy alleys, have been shuttered. Taxi drivers who once thrived on commissions from brothels are grappling with shrinking wallets. Some landlords are having a hard time renting out apartments, as prostitutes leave town or decide not to return from Lunar New Year vacations.
Photo
A taxi driver showed fliers that listed prostitution services. Credit Theodore Kaye for The New York Times

So severe is the crackdown, and so large is the sex industry in Dongguan, that police officials in nearby Hong Kong have expressed worries about a potential flood of displaced prostitutes arriving there.

The campaign appears to be the latest element in a broad push by President Xi Jinping, the chief of the Communist Party, to expunge the image of corruption associated with Chinese officials.

The Public Security Ministry in Beijing pledged last month to strike a blow against the “three vices” — prostitution, gambling and drug use — but the focus of the crackdown is obviously on sex for sale.

The nationwide campaign began on Feb. 9, when China Central Television broadcast what it billed as undercover exposé, showing liaisons for pay in Dongguan hotels. The next day, the party chief of Guangdong Province, which includes Dongguan, ordered the city to shut down its entertainment sites for three months. Police officers raided some saunas, nightclubs and karaoke bars, the kinds of places that have a reputation for iniquity across China.

International brand-name hotels have not been spared. The local Sheraton has a foot massage parlor on the fifth floor that has been shut down, and the spa next to the hotel has police seals on its doors. (A manager at the Sheraton said an outside company ran the spa, though a call to the spa’s phone number was answered by the Sheraton’s guest services department.)

The Ministry of Public Security has ordered police departments across China to carry out similar clampdowns. A joke making the rounds goes that to curb a recent surge in bird flu Mr. Xi said “get rid of chickens,” but the order was accidentally sent to the Public Security Ministry instead of the Health Ministry, and police officials thought that meant go after prostitutes.

So far, the biggest political casualty has been the Dongguan police chief, Yan Xiaokang, who has been dismissed and put under investigation. But it is the prostitutes who are facing the harshest consequences.

“This is the most serious campaign so far,” said a friend of Denny’s, a male prostitute with a trucker cap and black painted fingernails. “It’s the same everywhere, so we can’t even go to other cities.”

Before the crackdown, Denny’s friend said, he could make more than $100 on a good night. But he is now wary of contact from potential clients because they may be police officers “fishing” for people to arrest, and the clients have the same fears about making contact.
Continue reading the main story
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Sleep-tracking apps can help you make it through the night
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Early in the campaign, on Feb. 10, the Dongguan police announced that they had inspected nearly 2,000 entertainment sites in the city, had found 39 of them to be “yellow venues” (yellow is a slang term in China for erotic), and had arrested 162 people. In the first six days, according to the Security Ministry’s website, more than 2,400 yellow venues across the country were shut, 73 prostitution rings were broken and more than 500 people were detained.
Photo
An adult store in Dongguan with a sign reading “temporarily closed.” Nightclubs and massage parlors have also been shuttered. Credit Theodore Kaye for The New York Times

The sex industry is more developed in Dongguan than in other Chinese cities, according to scholars, prostitutes here and the program on China Central Television, which drew wide criticism for showing prostitutes without obscuring their faces.

Clubs give customers menus of dozens of services, some with names that have typically Chinese poetic flourishes (“phoenix rising from the bath”). Two hours with a woman in an upscale site typically costs 1,000 renminbi, or about $160. A client can hire a prostitute to be an exclusive lover: A help-wanted advertisement posted on streets in the Houjie area said that the worker could earn $1,640 to $4,900 a month. The same ad said a “room princess” — a woman who plies clients with drinks in karaoke clubs — could make $1,300 a month plus tips. The clientele extends beyond the mainland: Businesspeople from Taiwan and other parts of Asia often include a Dongguan stop on their China trips.

“I don’t think Dongguan has the most prostitutes or the most expensive ones, but it definitely has the most advanced and the most mature sex industry,” said Ai Xiaoming, a literature professor and gender studies scholar at Zhongshan University in Guangzhou, the provincial capital.

At the clubs along the strip east of downtown known as Bar Street, business is nonexistent. The doors have all been sealed with strips of white paper bearing police stamps dated Feb. 14 — Valentine’s Day. One recent afternoon, dozens of young employees of one club, Vee Plus, gathered outside its doors hoping to pick up back pay.

“In Dongguan, two out of five people will lose their jobs if the situation doesn’t return to normal,” said Lin Yadong, a club manager, who wore a blue scarf and stiletto boots. A woman next to her said, “If we don’t reopen, how will we eat?” Others nodded.

Ms. Lin said the club employed more than 70 people, and that customers came to drink, play dice and listen to the D.J., not to pay for sex.

At the Cannes, a rival club, an accountant who gave only his surname, Huang, said the crackdown was “a real pain — no one knows whether to go home or stay, or go somewhere else to look for work.”

“The government is trying to figure out what to do with the industry,” he added. “They’re reshuffling the cards.”

A manager at the BB Club estimated that the shutdown was costing his business about $10,000 a day in expenses and lost revenue. “The government did this for secret reasons,” he said, and then quickly ushered a foreign reporter from the building as officials from the local culture bureau walked in for an inspection.

A private driver said the city’s hotels and clubs would not be viable without the sex industry. “Who goes to a bar if there are no girls?” he said. “You can’t keep the alcohol down if there are no girls to drink with.” The driver, who gave only his surname, Liu, said that he sometimes made $120 a night in commissions from brothels for bringing clients to them. “It’s affected all drivers,” he said of the crackdown. “I’ll just have to be more frugal.”

From beneath the armrest in his car, Mr. Liu produced a pile of fliers with photographs of naked women, phone numbers and lists of services. He said that he knew a man from Singapore who had paid for sex with five women at once. These days, he said, a client would be lucky to get the services of even one woman in Dongguan.

Mia Li contributed research.

[ Last edited by  Weelock at 19-3-2014 21:48 ]
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mrclen
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Crackdown

I think here's the deal and I would hope that enough members can abide by this. If enough of the people who visit the fair come for the entertainment and then the fair, and they know there is no entertainment, there is light at the end of the tunnel. IE:, hit them where it hurts the most, in the wallet! If enough people don't show up for the fair, then a light bulb should light in the dimmest of the political brains out there! Buyers come from all over the world to the fair to look, see whats new, and purchase products, and and to get away from the home fires for a bit and have some fun along with good business! If there is no fun to be had, how many of those buyers want to sit in their hotel room at night or even have a couple drinks at the hotel bar (if it is open). We all know that much of our business can be accomplished via email and conference calls, etc. May as well stay home and save the travel expenses. If enough of this happens and there is an $$$$ impact, then things will change and go back to some level of normal quickly! And although I know I am paranoid, I think that all members of all the forums (both english and Chinese) should think twice before putting in too many specifics about where to go, directions, names, prices, etc, etc. But as I do use the forum I would hate to see those same specifics go away and I don't think that PM's would accomplish much either. So it is a problem that I don't know if there is a solution to. My POV. mrclen
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Unfortunately, I think the percentage of people who go to the fairs and don't even think about punting is very high.  80%+  As a punter, your view of things might be a bit skewed.
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Reply #39 kaleu's post

Possibly!  But even half of the 20% is a BIG number with $$$ to spend!  I do exhibitions regularly and a 5 or 10% drop in business or prospective customers is HUGE and cause for alarm and corrective measures or reevaluating the respective exhibition.  mrclen
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