Absolutely correct robo.  Some level of emotional bonding is natural.  This is the risk we all run in the P4P business.  It shouldn't all be bad.  Just keep your head up and your wits about you.  (And your Cialis close by....)

Indeed bro wander....

I have stopped telling stories to friends back in the UK as I just think that they think I am full of shit lol

And yet...   My baby.  My love..., Joann, has done what my SO has done for years:  suspended her disbelief in my cover stories.  And in a weird way...., this is how I know what she feels is real.  She's come full circle.  


Damn and Shite!!!!  I am so in love with this girl!!!!!!!!!   But I  waited too long.  She's married now.  Same as me.  

So now the both of us go "what the fuck do we do next??????"

Shite!!!   I Dont know......    Wish I did.     

But........., there it is.......   an open question.  What would you do????  THe gal that is perfect for you.., you've known her for 4 years already (you KNOW her...., you love her).   

Fuck man.., this is hard!  I am a slut, to be sure.............., but I would give up alot to be with her.  Maybe everything.....

Bro... Stop hurting yourself.
There are two ways fo seing it, the half full or half empty glass.
Half full is all the benefits you get from this girl and the fact that you are so compatible. Clearly this is a great thing even though we all know (you included) that this only has a time, then things start to deteriorate. Still if its so strong, then you should probably think about quiting everything for her and just live your life, but she has to be ready to do the same (have seen a situation where the guy left his wife and the girl stayed with her husband... Thats tough!).
Half empty is about all that you would loose (dont know your personnal life) in terms of children, life, friends (they will judge you) wealth (she will walk away with your money... Talking about the SO).
I considered doing this one time but am a coward and could only see the half empty part. Maybe you have more balls then me (and I was in a situation where I had no one,just wanted to leave so didnt really have the half full part...).

You gotta do your Swot. Guess you've done it already but this is a situation that impacts you, your SO and many other people so it cant be taken lightly (its not a punt when everything goes back to normal after the deed!).

Whatever decision you take,  my advice is (I do it for my business decisons orhard emails), once your mind is set put the decision on hold for one day, look at it with a cool head the next day (dont think about it in between, this is kind of tough) and if it still makes sense, do the jump.

Sad to read,
but see the good sides:
1. Your Memories and
2. The girls have left you without damaging your family life.
Go on bro.

Wander, I told you before what I would of done.  Joann would be my wife, but that is just me.  LOL!!  That shit is tough bro.  It's crazy to even think about, but we are human.  It really depends on how you feel about your S.O. in the end.  It is no different than falling in love with someone else that you meet at work or on a blind date, they just have a different background.  Obviously Joann has feelings for you or she wouldn't cheat on her current husband.  LOL!!

Wanchai can really fuck up some lives, but it has also made many others very happy.  I know multiple people that met their future spouses there, both guys and W.G.'s

I have also heard from multiple sources that Thai girls don't mind you having more than one girl even if married as long as they always get to be number 1 girl.  My girl is a pinay, as such she gets jealous as hell if I even think about another chick.  Which is funny to me because I know when I am not in town she is doing short time with some fat, ugly fucker.

[ Last edited by  slimshanks at 24-8-2012 04:48 ]

Absolutely brother.  Shit I see heads turning when I walk around HK with my girl.  She is stunning and back home I would have to get out my shotgun just to take care of business.


Dooper you are correct 100%.  It is called being in deep shit!

[ Last edited by  slimshanks at 24-8-2012 04:58 ]

Great topic and one I have been on both sides of.

I remember when I first moved to asia I was young and after the first year of fucking everything that moved started to see some WGs more regularly and became very attached to them, however once I started to want to see them moreeach time they would run a mile.

Nowadays I try not to get attached to any of the girls and always pay them every time I see them - more for my sake than theirs things get complicated as soon as you stop paying WGs.  The more elusive or distant I am with my regulars the more they chase me. I honestly believe that it is near impossible for a monger and a WG to have a working relationship in hong kong or similar places, jealousy sets in on at least one side and once the trust is gone its all over.  

The very few successful relationships I have seen have been where they move to somewhere well away from the bars and brothels of asia as over here there is too much temptation on both sides.

For the men the temptation to stray is to high and the WG head back to the bars after arguments which usually are over money.

Short answer it is in both monger and WGs nature to cheatand it is very hard to change the habit of a lifetime!

i guess my overall advice (which is easy to dish out but hard to swallow) and to put all those fond memories in the bank, and carry on.

wander: it sounds like yr regulars knew that as yr leaving HK, any concepts they might have had of a future with u vanished. and, it's the same with all of us. we're spending time with someone, we like them, the sex is great...we're human, are we not? does it matter if it's a WG<>punter situation, or who's betrothed to whom? not at that moment.

my experience was in Bangkok, and coincidentally it involved 3 regulars. i was between SOs at the time so there were no hotels involved--just the uniformed guards at my condo who wd salute smartly every time i passed them.

the guards were from the Isaan region of Thailand, like all of my regulars (and 89% of the WGs working the farang-trade in BKK). they all knew my regulars. what i didn't know was that the elevator-cameras were plugged into the building's TV system (i never plugged my TV into the antenna, what for?). a friend moved into the building and his GF used to enjoy checking the feed to spot me ("look, he's got TWO tonight!"...she really did this) in the lift with my date(s). hey, i said 3 *regulars* OK?

i knew the guards spoke the local dialect and their loyalties weren't with the farang. so i never tipped them. i would smile and thank them when they saluted. they would let my regulars up. i never ordered a pizza in BKK but i ordered up girls.

and i cherish my memories. the gals haven't gotten older, haven't gotten into any bad substance-habits, still look great. i know because...i have the pictures, LOL!

i always kept things on a professional level because i didn't want that line blurred. but things change (and this is were i hope i'm addressing wander's thread rather than hijacking it). one of my regulars was in a steady relationship with BF or husband (likely the father of her child)--most Thai WGs have a Thai BF. i met him (he was, of course, "her cousin"). nice guy.

she was the most avaricious of the lot. also the most intelligent and capable.

the other two had no kids and were looking for a farang-sponsor. one was younger and had a fierce streak. she was sincere, and godDAM i did think about making a deal, she was adorable, gorgeous, and sexually adept. but she did evince jealousy and there were other signs. you don't ever want a Thai gal going ballistic on you, and i feel she had that capability.

the third was relatively older and not as stunning as the other two (just lovely, how's that). she was sexually ferocious and good fun. she was working this Swiss guy, and i dunno what else. she was desperate for a farang-sponsor as she was reaching her sell-by date. she did, however, have some personality flaws related to her desperation (also falling into the trap of cheap alcohol as a balm for life's worries).

i said goodbye to all these ladies as i left town...for Hong Kong. i kept my Thai SIM and would plug it in when i visited on holiday. i got together with all three of them when i was back in town--same deal as before.

i guess i never felt the DEPTH of passion that wander talks about. i knew the one was married, and what slimshanks mentions above ("Thai girls don't mind you having more than one girl even if married as long as they always get to be number 1 girl") is true. but do NOT take that statement lightly. what it implies is that you know what the NUMBER ONE GIRL requires and provide it without fail. the Thai term for "minor wife" is mia noi, and if you have a Thai steady and you want a concubine (the concept extends to other areas of Asia) you better be damn sure you always keep your #1 sweet. this involves a number of things, but understanding Thai culture and speaking the language are the bare bones. don't think u can just say "oh honey, you're number one" then go off and bang yr mistress. the rules weren't written by you and you WILL respect them.

so, i paid these women. there are two schools of thought (in Thailand anyway): pay now or pay later. not to say there aren't great Thai-farang marriages. but learn the rules. my strategy, which some would regard as cowardly, was to compensate them for their time and let them go afterward. but i was FUN, i made sure of that. the fringe benefits were astonishing. they tested my sexual endurance time and again. they were cute and funny and affectionate. i had feelings for all of them, but i knew i had to let them go.

then again, there were those marvelous reunions when i checked into a Bangkok hotel...how could i say no? eventually they dropped off my radar.

i laud wander's passion, perhaps i was a few degrees less involved. i knew the only way i could help either of the two looking for a sponsor was to make a serious deal. and i wasn't willing to do that, and they knew that i knew enough about this game and was unlikely to strike any partnerships. i was upfront with all of them: "I'm a butterfly" is the first thing you say to any Thai dame if u think yr going to see her more than once. keeps it honest, and yes, as wander mentioned, you get great stories about other punters--i also learned all about their WG pals and those stories. it was great fun.

OK, i'm rambling now...best of luck to wander and i KNOW he will keep us informed!

JtB

[ Last edited by  JackTheBat at 26-8-2012 12:31 ]

Well, I can assure you I didn't mean to get this passionate about her.    Infact I did everything to ensure this didn't happened - I pushed her away so manytimes:  "go find a single man, sweetheart.  A better man, you deserve it".  Eventually she did exactly what I told her to do.  

apart from being the most beautiful woman I have ever seen, I have simply never been as understood by anyone ever.  She "gets me" more than my wife ever has after countless years together.

letting go of that is proving very difficult.  

Anyway, I appreciate the thoughtful reply, Jack.  You are not wrong in anyof what you wrote -- just at some point the idea of doing the smart thing seems almost silly.  unappreciative even. Like at the pearly gates saint peter would review my decisions and go "you fuckin lost me, bro, on that Joann decision! How much clearer do we need to make it??  She was the one. Dumbass!

[ Last edited by  wander at 26-8-2012 15:17 ]

i believe you, wander. but u know--she might say the same thing!!

passion has destroyed kingdoms, and created happy unions. throughout history, for millennia...this is our fate as humans. it was probably a lot easier when wealthy landed-gentry betrothed their offspring at birth, when marriage was basically a business deal for our forebears. but even then, people rebelled.

i focused on the Bangkok example as it's discrete--easy to encapsulate. were i to detail all my civvie-adventures/misadventures in the romantic realm...well, this board's not about civvies, so i can't. but i've been through many of the feelings you describe. just not with WGs.

bottom line: treasure those memories and try to discard regret. we never know where The Other Path may have led. i always think of when i was a nerdy high school kid desperate to get laid. all the Popular Cliques (sports-stars, cheerleaders, etc) thought i was a total loser. but i got some perspective and some game. now i think: i've been all over the world, been involved with some amazing civvies, and as for the WG thing: i've done stuff in my Bangkok living-room that gives me a stiffie if i even THINK about it. so all the football-stars now worrying about how to get their kids out of the house or outta jail while that formerly-stunning now-300-pound cheerleader screams at them about the snow tires on the pickup truck--OK, who's pussying out NOW??

mixed metaphors but you get my drift. u don't know WHAT'S gonna be said at the pearly gates until u get there. my guess is St Pete will give the thumbs-up and say: "you lucky mother!"

JtB

That's what it always feels like when comparing the unobtainable one with the one you've got.  The more two people want to be together but are prohibited from doing so, the more they get reckless in passion and choose to overlook each others' shortcomings.  It feels like they are really loving you AND all your faults (as opposed to "in spite" of your faults).  It's pretty heady stuff, whereas the one you're with is a little worn down by familiarity and is loving you IN Spite of your faults.

And you know how often all that flips around once people get what the desperately want . . .

Hey bro,

I feel your pain

Always remember: a girlfriend is a girlfriend, and a wife is a wife.  CONTEXT is what defines the relationship, not the CONTENT.  
A woman transforms in an instant, as she transitions from one to the other.  

YOU are the grass that is always greener.  At this time.  
And you think you'd get all the benefits, and avoid all the bad-hair-days, if you were together 24x7?  
That's when you get to see what she's like when she's off colour, when she knows she doesn't have to impress you any more, when she feels safe with you but that inner insecurity that gnaws away inside her continues to torment her to look for something else to worry about ...

I guess you know where I'm coming from

It won't surprise me at all if she comes back to you ... and if she does, why not accept her back?  But think twice (and have a titanium-steel prenup) before you agree to give up the things that are making your life worth living today.  

In your circs you have a really good alibi for wanting to keep things the way they are:  "sorry Honey, I'm damaged goods, x years of being married make me traumatised about ever again committing to an exclusive relationship with anyone, even with someone I appreciate and admire as much as you" ... or words to that effect.  

This is of course just a "thought experiment" ... you should treat my advice with the disdain it deserves and live in the moment instead!

[ Last edited by  DArtagnan at 27-8-2012 10:10 ]

wow that's good. that's like a diamond-tipped drill bit taking the ultimate core-sample, like a hummingbird, then depositing it immaculate on a bright matte-white lab table.

shine the thousand-watt surgical light on that.

the grass is always greener. and yes, when the female moves in, the relationship shifts. for BOTH people. you see the angelic darling when she's no longer trying to impress you, when she's in a less-than-ideal mood...add procreation into the mix and there's different layers of complexity.

but you go to Wanchai and the girls there are just as alluring and interested in you. YOU are the grass that is greener.

JtB

1) You're almost done with HK, so it's kind of a moot point anyway.

2) You're heading to the Western USA, and I'm kind of curious what is going to happen with you here. You've already got your own little harem going, and here's a dirty little secret. You can hook with pretty much every nationality here. While HK may be cheaper, you're going to fuck yourself into a coma here.

3) J is a different ballgame. It's really easy. Either you give everything up for her, and live happily ever after, or you move on with the SO. I have a feeling this is an easy decision to you when you narrow it down. Especially since you can't work the deal with her from 7500 mi away.


Drop me a line when you're back in town, we'll talk.

Yeah pal, it is not that the decision is complex, it is that it is hard.  Either choiceis bad.  I guess there are worse problems in the world, but this onedoes have my mind wrapped around tree.  

I just spent the day with Joann. We talked much.  She finally did what I babe been unable to...... She made a decision. told me she's ready.  "I just have to do it" she says (referring to divorcing her husband).  "I have never been selfish, but I have to be this time.  I deserve to be happy too, right?  So this is it."she will if I will.  The ball is in my court.

By the way, pal,  what was that comment about angry angels?  Your comment was cut off.....

I really should not be commenting on which route you should take as I have not been married yet, but here it goes.

I thought you have kids, at least a son, who are still in school. You leaving them before they are emotionally mature can be devastating. If you wish to pursue J, can you at least wait until your kids are old enough?

Well, of course I thought of this.  My son is old enough to handle it.  This was a factor in my mind for a few years actually, and....well, I've.been with Joann for 4 years now, and he's just not a kid anymore.  He was when we first meet, but "life" happened!  The bugger grew up!

Ok, that is great.

Is J rushing you so that she too can still have children with a proven virile man?

"My guess is that there's going to be a lot of pissed off angels standing behind St. Pete."

I know you a little bit now, but don't really know you well enough to tell you what you should do with J. That one is probably well above my pay grade. But, I can give you a slice of personal experience. With someone I truly love, I'm pretty faithful. Otherwise, I'm a serial heterosexual. Now, we're all wired differently, and we all play the game differently. This is kind of why I like the K-gal apartment deal-you're well sucked and fucked and you leave one hour later smiling, it's completely disposable. Playing Casanova is much more complicated. If J really is The One, then go for it. Only you really know the answer to that question.