Exactly!, once you get rid of all the moral baggage, there is no hypocrisy involved. It's just that a lot of guys think of themselves as fulfilling a natural biological urge, nothing to do with right and wrong, and then turn around and judge the girls as ethically corrupt - dirty little whore!. That's what really pisses me off. That is hypocrisy. That is lying to yourself.

And don't get me started on religion. Half the problem results from all of the women-hating religions that came from the Middle East.

Unfortunately, we don't always know when we deceive ourselves.

I provided my opinion based on my experience

and to add;

I think I have taken more salt than rice among us

people with morals on sex shouldn't be hanging around here

and includes those with principles on sex and others-not-to-be-discussed subjects

Allow me to bore you with a story;

There's somebody I know who is 10 years older than me; strucked with a PRC 10 years younger than me.
They have been together for a number of years, and he's paying her about 100K baht per month to maintain her.
They are going to get married soon and she is sucking him for a house and a car and cash of course.
As a friend, I should have told him that the decision is not a good one. I didn't.
He admitted that his family told him that the girl is not good, but after all, it's life and his money.
Will he live to regret it? That is his own business.

[ Last edited by  sulasno at 23-9-2007 14:26 ]

I'm not saying that such things don't happen. I've heard two different stories in which mainland  women ((both from Shanghai, and supposedly neither prostitutes) have sucked some poor guy dry and then left as soon as the money ran out (in both cases also leaving children behind!). But, all we hear are the bad stories, and it's the horror stories that make an impression. You never hear of the happy endings because no guy is going to mention to a client over lunch at the Dusi Thani, in answer to the question about how he met his wife: "Oh, I first noticed Xiao Ling in the lineup at the Darling sauna in Macau; and let me tell you she was the prettiest little whore I ever did lay my eyes on! I knew right then and there that tight little-boy bum just had to be mine! And a BJ that even Jesus would queue for!! Hey, here she is now, let me introduce you."

I'll bet guys marrying prostitutes is not that uncommon, it's just never admitted.

And Sulasno, is your caution just about mainland women? I seem to have read a lot about older western guys marrying working Thai girls and everything turning out fine. Supposedly there are some small villages in the northern Thailand where these couples have even had a positive influence on the local economy.

I suppose you have to understand the Chinese culture;

marrying service providers is something frown upon by the middle and upper class;
watching too much old Chinese movies perhaps?

I am not saying that they don't make good wives; it's simply the culture.

Because the discussion is mainly on mainland women, hence my general opinions based on my observations.

Thank you for bringing up the subject on the Thai women.
Perhaps you have been reading too much Bangkok News;
No Thai will marry a prostitute.  There is a marked difference between the local prostitutes and service providers in Thailand. If you visit clubs and pubs, please note that the girls do not sell their their bodies to every Tom, Dick and Harry unlike massage establishments. They have the option to select the client.

European men marrying Thai girls from the North East is a common event in Thailand.  Note  that not all the Thai girls are "working girls" .  Some of them may be working at clubs, pubs, traditional massage establishments as waitresses, etc. Most men would bring them back to where they came come and maybe only 1 or 2 would visit Thailand out of the thousands.
Mind you, they could be worse then the mainland women.  They would devise schemes to suck the men dry and will even kill.

Reminds me of another true story; I was introduced to an American professor teaching in Japan through a mutual friend. Over drinks, he confided that his Thai wife was plotting to kill him.  I won't relate how she intend to do it.  He needs help to get his son back and engaged a reporter to help him. Have not heard from him since, but 2 years after meeting him, read a report by the reporter, detailing the scheme.

Do the European men have happy ending with the Thai girl? I will it to the readers to decide. Wait till you hear about the stories of the girls sending email from the internet cafe asking for money to buy a pickup for the father; mother is sick and needs to undergo an operation; "Hey I already sent you the money for the hospital fees last week." "Yes, that was first mother, but now second mother also sick"

BTW I have a friend (I think he should be in his 70's if he is still alive) whose wife is 20+. When the group of us are going dining, while waiting for him to arrive, the question would be "hey, what time is the grandfather arriving with his grandchild?  

Although I am not Thai and staying here for more than a decade, I am still trying to understand the local culture and mentality.

I know of a couple whose husband turns a blind eye to the wife sleeping with another man; as long as the wife can satisfy his gambling habit; and sometimes I meet the 3 of them sharing the same table having lunch at the local restaurant.

Wow! I can see that you are really a treasure of information. It would be nice to get together sometime during my next trip to Thailand - tho don't know when that will be.

Let me add my own Thailand horror story. In the early nineties, I had a good Norwegian friend working as an investment adviser here in HK. This guy was really fit; early 40's, jogged, didn't smoke, thin and trim. I returned to HK after a few months and learned that the guy was dead. They found his body in a Pattaya hotel room. As far as I know, there was never an investigation. I assumed poisoned nipples, or some such trick, but never learned what really happened.

So you say that the Thais distinguish between a go-with-anyone prostitute, and what you call a service provider who chooses her customers? That they wouldn't marry the former, but would marry the latter? And if no-one will marry the hundreds of thousands of common prostitutes, do they all become spinsters? I've had a couple of very beautiful girls from the Darling massage parlor off of Sukhumvit (I think Soi 12, but it was a decade ago). Hard to imagine them going unmarried. Tho I'm sure they lie about what they do.

Yes, I had many people tell me that the Thais are  difficult for the farang to understand.

Your story about the grandfather; one of my favorite Chinese expressions is 老牛吃嫩草 (the old cow eating tender grass) as a metaphor for an older man with a young lover.

sorry to hear about your friend; guess he did not know the local scene well enough to venture on his own; but Pattaya is a relatively safe place if you follow your instincts.

poisoned nipples is something very common although I have not encountered them; when I first visited Bangkok, I was brought to a no hands restaurant and I brought a girl out.  She was warned by my friend to take good care of me and not to cause me any inconveniences. I guess have friends in a unfamiliar place helps.  At least I get first hand advice.

You wouldn't want to patronise a go-with-anyone prostitute. Cost of a short time; 100 - 200 Baht.
You can call them rejects; most of them abused drugs.  I am not saying the that the service providers don't;

As for the service providers, sooner or later, they will end up with someone; but whether the relationship will continue, nobody knows.

Personally I come from a small country where the people are disciplined; but after staying in Thailand, I have done many things that I will never dream of doing back home;

First lesson to be learnt;
Jai yen yen; it means to be patient

mai pen rai; it means never mind (no matter what they did)

sabai sabai; it means easy going

and remember never to make a Thai lose face.

as for the grandfather, good luck to him

My two cents...

Go for love...ask to go see her sister. And ask in a way so that she has no way of rejecting. Make sure she has time, say you'll cover the travel costs, etc. If her story checks out, that she has a sister at all and that she does have cancer, you can START to trust her.

Go for sex...keep her as a sex toy. Befriend her but don't let her befriend your wallet. See where the relationship goes.

My experience...  I tried dating a 141 before...  actually on two separate occasions.  One turned out really horrible as she asked to borrow a lot of money and promised to return it.  Ofcourse she ran away once she got the money.  She gave me a sad story and told me to help her out so she dont have to hook no more and be my gf.  I initially believed her and I must have been out of my mind.  Only till like 2 weeks later I started to feel like something wasn't right but by then it was kind of too late and I knew she would never repay me back.  And how did it end?  Well once she realize I wasn't going to give her anymore money she took off with what money I already gave her.  It was the worse feeling one would have to go through.  I don't want to ever go through that again.  Honestly I blame myself as I let myself fall into that trap.  Chalk it up to a costly lesson learned.  BTW she was a Korean, and I always knew Korean girls are gold diggers and good at it.  So be careful out there.

Ive been to Thailand before and I got the warnings to not fall in love with them no matter how hard it is because they wanted money and have all kinds of sad story.  I was tempted a few times in Thailand to take them up but was always able to think calmly and not get emotionally attached.  So at worse I got fleeced a big tip and called it a nite.  I guess in HK my guard was down...

So my advise is to be very very careful.  As many have commented, and some with good points, it is not in your favor to date them.  If you still feel they are not hungry for money, wait for that moment they ask for money...  and then you have to decide whether the amount they asking is an amount you can afford to lose and not hang your pride over.  If you wanna sponsor them...  then by all means...  hehe...

Anyways I hope my experience helped this topics conversation.

thank you for sharing

Thanks sqwrt for sharing your experience.

I will be very careful. In fact, my strategy is simple. If we were to date, I would end the relationship as soon as she wouldl ask me to lend her some money. She just mentioned the sister story because i insisted. She was very reluctant to tell me the story at the beginning. As we started to know each other better, she told me the story but never ask me to lend her some cash. I think she is also trying to protect herself.

As I told before, she is currently back in china to visit her sister and take some rest after her first 3 months as 141girl. If she wanted to suck me, she could have ask me to lend her some cash before leaving to mainland. She didn't.

In fact, the only thing she asks me was to lend her my nintendo DS during her three week vacation in mainland
But when she discovers that the games are not her type, she just forgot about it  

Of course, one can also argue that she may have a longer term strategy -> in that case, what a cunning woman...

Best of luck whatever happens between you and this girl.  

My observations of girls in the industry, are that they choose this profession, only for financial reasons.  I'd bet that so long as her needs including the needs of her families are met, she will always be willing to play the happy wife.  Once her needs are not met, she will find ways to have them met, whether that be a return to 141, or dumping you for another sponsor.  I've seen it happen before, and I know that it's going to happen again.  Not that it would happen to you, but there are too many nice-guys out there.

if only everybody knows the situation in Bangkok;

this is how the PRC operates in Bangkok

Young, pretty girl arrives in Bangkok.  Mamasan contacts mongers. After a week or so, an old man keen to keep the girl. Price agreed. After a month or so, old man gets bored and only visits her occasionally, while paying full price including rental, blah blah blah. Girl gets bored and hunts for mongers to get more income. Time for girl to return to China since stay is going to expire soon. Ask old man for cash to buy air ticket. Ask latest monger for cash to buy air ticket. Contact previous mongers for cash to buy air ticket. Ask first monger for cash to buy air ticket.  Ends up with enough cash to buy 20 air tickets. Buy air ticket. Ask the last monger for cash to buy air ticket.

The same method is used when shopping.

Do many PRC girls ply the trade in Bangkok?

I assume it's the Thai Chinese (and there are very many rich Thai Chinese, tho they all have (by law?) Thai names) that are interested in the Mainland girls.

yes, you are right;

only the Thai Chinese are interested in the mainland girls; Some of them do have Chinese names.

the mamasans also bring in the girls to cater to the foreigners who are Chinese;

maybe will check whether the girls will service the non Chinese in Bangkok; could be the language problem though;

once meet a couple of them who can speak English

however due to the changes in the immigration department, some of them only stay for a maximum of 30 days per 6 months and IIRC, they can only visit Thailand after 6 months from the date of the last exit; I am not sure though; apparently no one is interested in making money from the mainlands' passport; I suppose too messy now unlike in the past, there are people who can arrange for visa extensions, etc.

Thanks wayno for your support. Hope this will work. Two weeks to wait before her coming back from Mainland.
Will let you know what the outcome will be.

Get a detective to check out her story. If true then take the next step.

why don't send puffdaddy to do the job?

A girl I like (Hotel one), Wanted to have my child.......this was blurted out in a rare moment between our session .....

Some time in the night as I am laying awake I find that very sweet. I know this could be a ticket for her, but I am also willing to accept that this could be a genuine exuberance from her. I also know few people who have married these ladies, I dont think their relationship's any more stronger or worse then normal ones ??? The main problems is that both the people in such a relationship will carry extra baggages which will require quite a lot of handling, otherwise this could potentially kill the relationship?? In my perfect world I would have no compunctions marrying such a lady!!! Lastly as a brownie points, one wishes that if one marries such a lady, she may just be perfect in the sack??? which at times can be the difference between a lot of things....

[ Last edited by  lantaubuff at 29-9-2007 20:47 ]

at any one time I only have one relationship and in all the relationships, they want to carry my baby'

perhaps that is how they can tie me down

Seriously?? And I thought I was reaching the plateau of longing in the call girl circles
You live and you learn......Next line is going to be ' I bet you say that to all the guys'....