If it's just paying for the guarantee of good Papasan service then I don't think I'd want to pay the extra. If it also guarantees that the girls provide a certain level of service then I think that is worth paying the extra. If you do your research right and have time then you can find an attractive girl. The only way to find out about a girls service though is through reports and sometimes this can mean the girl is gone by the time you can get round to them.

Hi Twice,

as you've asked it, it's impossible to answer, and here's why:-

if I can't communicate, or get service below what I can tolerate (e.g. no shows, nasty bait-n-switch), I just won't patronise at all.  

It's not like "will I pay more for good service?", it's more like "would I tolerate a poor service just in order to save money?" ... and the answer to that q is "No!".  If I'm even AFRAID of not being able to communicate or being screwed over, I won't even try.  

The reality is that I don't pay more.  The market is the market - I don't spend any energy worrying what's a "fair" price - I just pay what I need to pay, as little as I can to get what I want (assuming I can afford it).  

Of course, I do tip, but that's not to the 007, and definitely not for the advertised wares or service, it's for service received.

But if your question is "is it worth rewarding a good papsan" I wholeheartedly agree.  If there was a way to tip, I probably would.  In a way, he does get a tip: disregarding the deal he has with the girl (to share her fee in return for the service he provides to her), he does generate additional market value measured by the difference between a good-looking walkup girl's rate and what he actually gets.  The premium he attracts seems to be around $150 to $300 just by general impression.  

A much more effective way to reward good service would be to make it visible and transparent.  The reports on this forum go a long way towards that, but really the only way to deal with poor service is to identify and fire the poor service providers.  If they don't get business, they exit the business real fast, just as the girls that don't make it leave very quickly.  

Do you have an idea for making good service more transparent?  Or a rating system for the 007s?  

Can't wait to hear!!

Well we could build a "best service panel" of Papas and explain to them that we keep score. Each time you phone up you explain that you are from sex141, etc. To business minded Papas this should make a difference if we produce decent traffic but not sure how many of those there are.

[ Last edited by  bbbjp at 23-9-2008 15:44 ]

It's really a question of leverage - if there's enough people reading the reports, who then avoid the good-looking girls who are with a rude 007, it doesn't matter whether we tell the papas or not: the market will reward the good ones and exit the bad ones.

but IF the reality is that the market responds to the girl's pic and nothing else matters (not that I'm suggesting that's in any way possible!! ) nothing would change the balance and the most skillful PS artists win the day.

This is really up to the locals as you guys are the volume "buyers" with the agents and can establish a relationship that will get you better service, or maybe punish the agents who are dicks.    BUT, how can most guys resist the WG pictures that are a "9" or "10" on the erection scale?    .... climb any mountain, cross any river .....

I have had a lot of crap experiences with agents; not understanding English (but I see this as my fault, I am in their country), hanging up, I even had my phone number (hotel) barred on my 3rd call to one guy (the WG was just too beautiful not to keep trying), saying they will send WG to hotel but no-show, etc.    But then a couple have been quite good, reasonable English (or at least tried), even given me their direct phone number and arranged several WGs for me during my stay, and backups which I could look up on 141. I'm sure such Agents have ended up with extra money for this service as they negotiate the price, and did add a premium, which I'm glad to pay to a reliable agent who is easy to work with.

"It's really a question of leverage - if there's enough people reading the reports, who then avoid the good-looking girls who are with a rude 007, it doesn't matter whether we tell the papas or not: the market will reward the good ones and exit the bad ones."

Telling them with help facilate change and hasten any improvements. The market will reward the good ones but I doubt it will be punishing enough to exit the bad ones (they wil still get enough business to survive). Telling them incentivises improvement, although taht doesn't necessarily mena they will respond.

"but IF the reality is that the market responds to the girl's pic and nothing else matters (not that I'm suggesting that's in any way possible!!  ) nothing would change the balance and the most skillful PS artists win the day."

That's the point of a panel. That we make decisions with panel bias.

"BUT, how can most guys resist the WG pictures that are a "9" or "10" on the erection scale?    .... climb any mountain, cross any river ....."

It's only a panel, not a binding contract (don't tell the paps that ). But on average you'd expect papas to get a spread of girl quality. If a papa shows the ability to consistently locate better loooking WGs, then he can afford to give poorer service. But giving the panel the first look should create some bias that would reward better papas. One problem with just leaving it to the market is that people don't share bad papa information and perhaps bad experiences are forgotten. This causes weak market efficiency.

conclusive evidence of where the market's focus is ... actually if you look, papa info is in many of the reports, especially when the papa was a poor one or another papa was unreachable ... but in the end if they guy got to the girl and she earned 4 x 5's, how much do the readers actually care about the hassle?  

forget to be or not to be - THAT really is the question!!!

This made me think we should expand the standard reporting template to include a section rating the experience with the agent? However I'm not sure how we could conclusively identify the agent anyway? It's not like their photos/stats get published on 141. Anyone have any ideas?

I'm pretty certain some of these setups are almost like a call centre. I've had a range of experiences when I've called; one guy, two old women who discuss what the fuck I might be saying in English (and hanging up), to situations where I've heard other people taking calls and being passed over to someone who speaks some English.

It is likely some WG's may get work from multiple agents, maybe some agents have their own mini networks with each other? If this is the case how can we link/rate the agents via the WG?  The locals who use 141 a lot would gather their own intelligence on the good and bad agents but how would they share that with the group? They may only know a voice on the end of the phone.

"Do you have an idea for making good service more transparent?  Or a rating system for the 007s?  
Can't wait to hear!!"

"how much do the readers actually care about the hassle?"

If they don't care then there's no point to the system, though I gather from the previous post you do care and running a panel was just a suggestion by me.

"actually if you look, papa info is in many of the reports, especially when the papa was a poor one or another papa was unreachable ... but in the end if they guy got to the girl and she earned 4 x 5's,"

Papa info is in there but it's not collated. You'd have to read the report look up the girl and record the number. Also you can't figure out if a Papa has more than one number, which you could if were seriously running a panel. I'm not saying running a panel will work because at the end of the day it requires effort and I'm one of those who feels papa service is secondary to the girl in my enjoyment of the experience.

[ Last edited by  bbbjp at 23-9-2008 18:18 ]

If it works a bit like the film Durian Durian, then groups of Papas/Mamas will have a hangout. so it could just be someone tapping the collective English dictionary !

Regarding the template, we could start recording the papas numbers as ID but really you need a DB of papas and to store historical service score data on them for it to be of real benefit.

[ Last edited by  bbbjp at 23-9-2008 18:18 ]

I've done no research so am open to Bros' comments but I expect the agents numbers may change frequently?  If a Bro gets the agent's personal cell number then this would likely be the exception, but then the ones that have given me their number tend towards good service. Anyway, the agents who are blacklisted would just change their cell number. Certainly the phone number associated with the WG is subject to constant change, it's like some amorphous switchboard. Any suggestions??  

Well the panel I had in mind was a positive reinforcement one. So there would be no blacklist, just a list of dependables. You could run a blacklist along side it but I think it's easier to manipulate a blacklist. Usually need fewer neg comments to get a bad rep than good reviews to get a good rep.

Also you could make the list restricted material as a small measure to dissuade manipulation.

yeah I think you are on the right track. I was thinking about this and wondered if some form of agent info exchange is already happening via PM or whether it already exists for Bros over a certain reading level?

I first was thinking about checking, yes at 30% because in my mind I was giving about that much value to that end of the service.  But, in fact, I think we are already paying enough, in this market, for what should be good service.  If anything, if someone wants to stand out in this market and make a killing, they should do as suggested by twice but at the same price.  When you find a nitch fill it, common business philosophy, no reason to pay more, just more of us that want better service need to show appreciation for better service when we get it.  Frequent those that give it to you and the concept will come around on its own.  Free market!!!

There's always the bargain price of $498 at KP for guaranteed great service   But maybe the poll was intended to be asking at both service and good looks

I end up sort of in an interesting middle ground here.  I my experiences in various places around the world, I tend not to be the one looking for cheapest service, nor am I  much for paying a premium rate, as I often find that the premium price girls KNOW they are worth more, and often give a poorer service, albeit often in a nicer setting.

I do tend to avoid cheaping out and ending up in a questionable area or in a crappy place.  I will easily pay 10% or 20% more for a nicer place (massage, sauna, hotel), in part for safety and in part of making sure I enjoy the experience.   

I will also pay a little more for a younger (but still very legal) girl.  Nothing more annoying than ending up in a massage place and realizing the girl is older and in worse shape than I am.  I will repeat visit where possible (and pay more if required) for a girl that shows desire and enthusiasm, nothing like getting a girl that actually knows how to at least fake it properly!

It will be itneresting when I get to HK to see what the trade offs are like.

for me, it's always  Service > Looks > Price..

lucky for me.. because ...

Looks = higher price
Service = lower price

i guess most average WGs improve their service to make up for their lack of beauty..
whereas a lot of super-hot WGs, knowing their looks are enough to attract customer, just slack on their job...\

of course, i would like a gorgeous babe with good services, but nowadays it's pretty hard to find one.
so to decide between Looks and Service..
i take the latter..

at least i know i won't feel pissed or cheated after the fuck..

"i guess most average WGs improve their service to make up for their lack of beauty.."

I found this to be true sometimes but sometimes I find the WG just doesn't give a shit.

those are probably too jaded...