SEAJ, any idea how long it would take to go from CP to Shekou via private car? The reason I mentioned the ferry is to avoid the crazy ass border queues at the land crossings. I've heard nightmare tales about that and would like to avoid it like the plague!

thanks for your answers thus far! I can assure you that in this coming year, I will have lots more questions to ask!!

It should take you approximately an hour to go by private car/van CP-Shekou.  

If you're by yourself and to save a bit of cost, you can go by CRH train (30 mins) to Luohu and then by subway to Shekou; but since there's 6 of you, perhaps best to get an agent to arrange a van to take you.

But like I said, you should also check at the Hui Mei Lobby travel desk about their bus/van transport CP to Macau.
If I remember, I'll try to ask for you when I next get back up to CP

SEAN

I guess its kind of a dum question because its really their choice but I mean some of the chicks I have talked to tell some sad stories.  The common denominator is pretty much the wages in China are so low that they cannot support their families so they are forced to do this.  I always get a little teary eyed when I ask if their family knows they are doing this and they tell me no theyre parents would be devastated if they found out.  Idk if they are just playing me for a sap but I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt.

If you read a bit more of our forum, you'll find a few threads about this topic.

And IMHO, the general consensus had always been - yeah, heard them, sympathize a bit like a Gentleman should and just forget about it. Most of these are just that - sob stories and usually ones designed to elicit more cash from you!

Get you started - **^0^ Tricks of the Game – WG’s EXPOSED! ^0^**
http://forum.sex141.com/eforum/v ... 6002&highlight=

SEAN

At the request of the great SEAJ, and because I don't want to tip someone who has had recent multiple personality issues over the edge (you know who you are SEAN). I will try to give a little encouragement to those who are stuck on the Newbie stage and my take on sticking with it.

Joined the forum myself in 2009, and posted very little, and was worried that there was little I could post that was relevant. That all changed a few months back when I thought WTF try and get involved. And what I discovered was the forum was more than just a site to exchange sexual exploits, it's more of a community of like minded people, and once you get involved it's quite addictive! Before you know it you get propelled through the ranks, and get some pretty good banter going on, as well as the caring and sharing aspect.

Now onto the serious stuff:

If you want to get on you must endure a path that is straight and true. I have chosen such a path, and the Gods of 141 have chosen to decree upon me the the title of Carnal Conqueror.
If you decide that you too wish to be granted such an honour, you have to take a solemn vow. That you will protect the less fortunate and help them where possible, and not ridicule them for what may appear silly questions. Unless of course some twat asks something like "hey guys any tips on finding a girl" in which case rip away at him!
But this path is not an easy one to follow and there will come a time when your resolve is tested. For there are also demons which need to be exorcised that will try to take your soul, by disguising themselves as plagiarised reports to trick you into the belief that they are one of us, creating multiple accounts and being shitty towards those goddesses we worship otherwise known as WGs.
Where such a demon crops up, you must rally and allay your fears, show true courage and smite them down by giving Negative Ks. In my case only -2Ks 'cos that's all I can do!

First and foremost do as that great philosopher Mr B Lee said:

"141 is like a finger pointing to the Moon! Don't concentrate on the finger or you will miss all that heavenly glory!"

Of course I'm not sure whether or not said finger was slipping in and out of some chicks LS.

KEEP IT UP GUYS

Let me add my 10rmb's worth, if I may.......

I am plugging away on my way to the CC level, having recently become MM.  I don't punt on a regular basis (once a month if I am lucky), so it is slow going for me, but if you are patient, join in on a discussion or two, you will make steady progress.  The real way to advance is by making reports. And if you want to advance quickly attach pictures of naked WG's.  The bros really like naked pics and that seems to open the Karma flood gates.

But back to being patient.....I don't punt often and I haven't done it enough to feel comfortable taking pics, so I am on the slow growth path.  But that's ok, cuz there is still a lot of other interaction and fun banter going back and forth on this forum, not to mention useful tips, reviews, locations, etc.  Most of the guys really seem to care about the other bros and will really open up with some heart-felt advice.  Just ask gonuts.  

I'm in an odd mood at the moment so a bit of a personal rant here.

I didn't know whether to post this in eataroundthebush's excellent thread at http://forum.sex141.com/eforum/viewthread.php?tid=36468 or to create a new thread or to just post it here.  Well, I'm just going to post it here.  This short story is another one many of us have heard before.  Falling for a WG for all the wrong reasons.

So I recently fell for another working girl.  I think this is #4 for me now but to different degrees with each one.  Honestly, this is #2 that I've had (unintentional) thoughts and discussions about marrying.  Sometimes us guys who see WGs confuse and mistake sex with having an emotional connection.  WGs do this as a job and see us only as clients.  Even WG friends (and strictly friends) that I've made over the years have told me that they maintain a strict distinction between work and love.  My latest act of foolishness however was fortunate in that it didn't cost me too much financially but I'll admit that it broke my heart.  She's a fantastic liar and I can only tell this story because even her own WG friends, who themselves are always hustling guys and had a good laugh at my expense, took pity on me and think that she's gone too far with the lies.  Here are some of the things that she's told me over the months and in square brackets what is actually the truth.

- She's divorced from her ex-husband. [She's still married but separated. The husband still loves her and refuses to sign the divorce papers. He still sends her money.]
- She left her ex-boyfriend. [They're still together, have been for six years and talk on the phone in Mandarin every day. Sometimes when I've been in the room with her. She knows that I don't understand Mandarin. In Hong Kong she lives at the boyfriend's home and the guy knows about her separated husband]
- She has no kids. [She has two kids with the separated husband though she admitted this later on.]
- She wants to have another child, this one with me. [We've gone bareback like boyfriend/girlfriend and outside of her workplace like any normal dating couple. Actually she's had tubal ligation (her tubes are tied).]
- She used to work at a chaa lau (茶樓) in Hong Kong. [She worked at a 141/161 walkup and had for years.]
- She came to Canada as a tourist but before returning to Hong Kong a friend told her about becoming a WG. [Actually her friend and several other of her friends in Canada that I've met were all neighbours and WGs in Hong Kong. They came to Canada because WGs here make 2 to 3 times more money than in Hong Kong. All of her WG friends have husbands or boyfriends who know what they're doing in Canada.  Also, all of them have kids.]
- She doesn't have much money and has to work to support her mother and her kids. [She's also supporting her real boyfriend who loves her as much as any person can. Some of her best clients in Hong Kong gave her thousands of American(!) dollars to cover the cost of her vacation in Canada.]
- She has often asked how much money I have, saying that her friends say that I'm poor and she just wants to prove them wrong. [She's been sizing me up trying to figure out how much money I'd be willing to give her.]
- She's never given her phone number to any clients. [Actually she has a roster of dedicated clients who repeatedly see her and I've been in the room when they called. Her giving them her new walkup address gave that away.]
- One of her WG friends kept trying to convince her to marry me. [This WG friend was and still is stringing along a guy herself who has fallen for her.]
- Her friends back home in Hong Kong think that we're a great match. [She's been bragging to her friends about how gullible I am, how much I love her and how I'll support/sponsor her financially without question even without living in Hong Kong with her.]

So how did I learn all of this?
- She openly bragged about all of this in front of her WG friends.
- One of her WG friends took pity on me.  This one had warned me weeks ago and for a long time I thought it was just jealousy among girls.  This WG knew all of my girl's other WG friends back in Hong Kong and had detailed, intertwining stories for all of them which made sense based on what these girls had already told me in past normal conversation.
- She began asking more and more questions about the state of my finances as well as my current and past salaries. While this is somewhat a taboo subject in western culture for me, I didn't think much into it because I know that Asian cultures freely talk about personal salaries.
- She "unsaved" for lack of better words her QQ account from my iPhone. Another harmless thing but in the past she always played on her QQ on my iPhone and knew that I had access to it. She must have realized that she was receiving messages from her real boyfriend and that I would be able to see them.
- She no longer calls me every day.  This actually makes me sound pretty insecure and needy.  In a real relationship you would call/talk/chat with your boyfriend/girlfriend every day.  We did that for months.  Like many women she talks to almost all of her friends every day. Not with me anymore though.
- I've seen recent photos of my girl and her real boyfriend in embrace like any normal photo that a couple takes together.  I think I'm a much better catch than him but they've been together for six years whereas I'm just a random guy she met in a different country and probably won't even contact again in a few months.

What signs did I miss?
- She has openly said on numerous occasions that she's no good and that I shouldn't be with her.  When I asked why she always gave lame answers like our age difference (4 years) or our education difference.  She had been hinting for me to get out before my heart really fell for her.
- She has openly said that I can mess around with other WGs if I wanted to. The gentleman in me would never do this since I was with her. Originally I thought she said this because she felt guilty about being a WG but actually it was another hint for me to get out before being too deeply involved.
- One of her WG friends said to me specifically that we wouldn't work out if I moved to Hong Kong. I never asked why but she did direct her statement specifically to me and not my girl or us.

Where am I now?  What thoughts or advice do you have for me?
- Well, my girl doesn't know that I now know the truth.  And I can't reveal that I know because I can't break the trust with the WG who took pity on me as my girl would instantly know who revealed everything.
- The sex with my girl is absolutely fantastic!  Honestly, I'm pretty sure that I'm going to continue playing her game just for the sex.  Yea the sex will now likely be a monthly thing versus the previous daily occurrence but it's better than no sex at all I suppose.
- The day will come when she'll seriously ask me for money.  I have no idea what I should say.  Part of me thinks at that point I should say, "A ha! I've known for months the game that you've been playing!" but she would know exactly who told me everything and I can't cause that other person who helped me to "lose face."  That last part doesn't make logical sense if you're not Asian and yes I know that to us westerners it's silly.  Obviously I could just say no or ignore her request but that would make me feel weird.

Really, the sex we have is fantastic!  What hurts me the most is that her personality is exactly my type, but now I have no idea if it was all part of her act or not.  When I think back to before we became friends and began dating her personality and demeanor was the same, but then again her own friends have said that she's a great liar.  I think she's working me long term and won't ask for money until she knows that I'm in too deep.  If I'm wrong she'll dump me within the next few weeks and everything above will be verified as true.

I'm still looking for holes in the story, both from my girl and the girl who revealed to me the truth. I can't ask any other of the WGs in her circle because they'll probably just cover for her.  They'll also inform my girl that I've been asking a lot of questions.  But what else can I do.

Anyways, that's my latest sad, foolish story.

Ahh, Bro Freelancer, it is obvious you are still totally smitten with her.  This is not a jab or attack on you - it happens!  Been there myself.  

I think, however, you might be "infatuated" with her, versus being truly in love with her.  And this is good.  (Love is worse -- heartbreak is the only way out, whereas infatuation fades naturally).   

Much of what you hear from her friends may not be entirely true either -- Lord knows gals play weird and unfathomable games).  But it seems clear her esteem for you goes little deeper than your wallet and some "fun on the side".  Plus, she's still married, is in a long-term live-in relationship, and has 2 kids with him.  She IS NOT available anyway.  

There is great sex to be had from a million gals.  Walk away from this one if you can't truly compartmentalize your relationship as just pure fun and nothing more.  Methinks, actually, that it is too late for this - she IS playing you, and the lies will continue.

Guys help me out here. As you may have seen I've had a small problem with my condom. So took the girl and my lb and went for testing. Result negative for both. Anywaythats not the point here. Here is the real deal:. We exchanged a lot of sms and talked with the girl and I get the feeling she either fell for me or wants to extract a little more money from the gwailo. She asked me out for lunch next week and even though she's a sweet girl, am a little worried that she'll try and get something out of the situation. So just wondering, what would you do in this situation? I can go for lunch and hope it'll stop there. Go for lunch and realize she likes me (and then what?!) or go for lunch and get blackmailed (but that I doubt, still....). What would you do in this situation knowing that until now she's been really nice and helpful to me (she came for testing without hesitation when I asked... But I paid for it!).

how to download the pict?
im a newbie,
what the  "Sorry, only specified users have permission to download attachments from this forum, please return" mean?
thanks before

Cannot agree with you more. I just became MM last week and is chasing for the CC now. The only different between you and me is I punt more often at pretty much once a week. I did go up to mainland for punting and I always keep an eye on HG and 141 walk-in. Wrote a few reports recently without naked pics (I don't have a good camera and I don't like taking too many stuffs with me while going punting). Reports with naked pics are always getting tons more K's. I will still feeding my K's pocket slowly and I enjoyed  the time sharing and interacting here with bros. Sometimes the discussion here is fun and you can get useful advise from bros.

Why not meet her for lunch, sex her and that's it. If she asks for money, just pay her what you would normally pay.

That said, I think the reason she's asking you for lunch is that she's on her period and can't sex anyway. So just ask you out, get a free lunch and hopefully get some money from the gweilo!

Personally, I been asked out twice in similar situations (without the condom scare and tests of course!) and both times, surprise surprise, the girl was on her period. But I just had lunch with them and helped them with some minor shopping that cost me only about USD 20 each time. But the good thing is that I built up rapport with them and had great sex later on!

Also, to share my experience of being a waiguoren too...I'm not fluent in Mandarin and both the girls did not speak a word of English. But we got along well enough to make it seem like an afternoon date. So enjoy your date and have fun!

Edit: Added last paragraph

[ Last edited by  Wachovia68 at 27-1-2012 20:04 ]

JackTheBat has requested that I do a bit of a write up on Dongguan/Chang Ping – so…. OK - here's my hypothesis on Chang Ping which I've touched upon in other posts.

Dongguan is a prefecture level City just north of Shenzhen with a population of approximately 7 million, ¾ of whom are migrants from other parts of China. Chang ping is just one of the 28 Towns in Dongguan and others you’ll read being mentioned on our forum are towns like ChangAn, Dalang, Houjie, HuangJiang, ZhangMutou, Tangxia or one of the 4 districts like Dong Cheng, GuanCheng etc. Please note that the Dongguan train station is actually Chang Ping station – a source of some confusion for those not familiar with the area - and why CP is such a bustling little town, as it is relatively easy to get to from Hong Kong, Shenzhen, Guangzhou etc. by train.

The beginnings of the P4P trade in Dongguan coincided with the arrival of factories in the late 70’s/early 80’s, and the factory owners, managers etc need for entertainment and other gentlemanly diversions during those lonely nights and week-ends away from their SO and families; this was especially the case for the Taiwanese as in the past, they had to take a round-about trip via Hong Kong when commuting between China and Taiwan. Cross border truck drivers were also early purveyors of the ladies for in the 80’s and 90’s they were making anywhere up to HK$45,000/monthly driving and the China/Hong Kong borders at that time closed at midnight. Chang Ping was a particular favorite for these truck drivers in those days - but even up to today, locals who know its beginnings still looks down on CP as being a low class town catering to truck drivers only! But it is this very milieu that created the broad spectrum of services available in Dongguan – from Catacomb-like dirt-floored hovels offering gals as low as RMB 30/pop, to the RMB130-250 BBS’s, RMB 300 – 900 Saunas, 2/5/8, 3/6/10 and even 10/50/100 KTV’s (refers to the pricing of the KTV gals – add two 0’s to the number for their sitting fee/one pop/overnight rates in RMB – YUP, there ARE Barbie class KTV gals who charges RMB 10,000/night!).

OK, enough history – lets get on with my hypothesis. China has grown economically during the past few decades – to the point that the powers-that-be recognizes that it’s high time that they should try to improve their International image as a progressive and civilized nation. And of course being civilized means that they also need to show that they provide enough opportunities for their own people – including and especially their young ladies – to NOT have to resort to selling their bodies etc.  Unfortunately, the oldest profession is still very much in demand and is indeed part and parcel of most social and business settings.

So what to do? A real and strong demand for “services” versus a need for China to maintain it’s “face?” Well, I believe that the authorities looked towards the model that Singapore and Hong Kong has taken as a copy book for their own plan of action.  This means containment, more regulation/lawfulness in such areas of containment and…. a gradual “upgrading and gentrification” of services offered therein.

And this seems to be happening right now with the “clean-up” of Zhuhai, Shenzhen, Guangzhou, even other parts of Dongguan like Chan An, while Chang Ping has been going from strength to strength.  All sorts of uber-luxe hotels like the YiHao, EuroAsia, Mayflower etc (AND its KTV/Saunas therein) have sprouted up during the past year or so, the “Catacomb area” behind the Walter has been eliminated, BBS’s had raised their price from 150 to 200 and from 200 to 250 ST (which although is only RMB 50 more – is actually a 25-33% rise in pricing that happened practically overnight). And BTW – the BBS mommies are now, right after the Chinese New Year, charging an ADDITIONAL RMB 50 for their gals – hope that this price rise does not stick after the festival period!!

Anyway, I am postulating that Chang Ping is going to be this area of containment for the P4P trade and will as such still continue to prosper in the immediate future – but things are gonna be progressively more expensive. There is no way that the government can completely eliminate the sex trade – but they certainly can make it progressively more expensive ….to slowly wean the population from partaking too regularly and too much of young flesh!

And by the by, I gotta also give you non-Chinese a bit of a heads-up about mongering in China. No way that China would want any of its areas/cities to be known as a “Sex destination” like Angeles City, Pattaya, Phnom Penh etc. and as such, please do NOT come here expecting it to be a full blown sex destination. And please DO KEEP A LOW PROFILE when and if you do come to monger here – one never knows when “National Pride” may come to the forefront of the locals’ mindset…and decide that a foreigner partaking of the pleasures of “THEIR” Chinese maidens is just not on.

SEAN

Reply to wander #3308

On the plus side is that I got a story out of it to share with other guys who may find themselves doing similar foolish things.  But whether it turns out that I'm right or wrong, the result is that women do play a lot of games.

Reply to Frenchexpat #3309

Like SEAJ said, nothing ventured nothing gained.  Go along with it in order to gain a better understanding of the situation.  Knowing that you're walking into a trap is the first way of preventing it.  And if you're wrong then the opposite could only be good news!

SEAJ - you know so much history! Have you lived through the rise of Dong Guan?
The population size is surprising, didn't realize it was as large as HK. Are you sure truck drivers made $45,000/mth?!! That's like what bankers make nowadays. Crazy, no wonder they can punt like kings. Hell, I'll be a truck driver too!

Just to add on a bit of history, think I read it from some mag. Apparently a lot of the girls were factory workers. When they found out that they could make so much more by being a WG, many of them went into the business and that is one of the reasons why the supply of girls seems endless (nowadays I'm sure they also actively recruit from other areas to go to DG just for the sake of being a WG).

As for China needing to clean up its image, I guess it wouldn't be bad to allow one city to be the city of sin, like Las Vegas in USA, or Macau. It wouldn't necessarily preclude it from being a world class country.

First your question on flower Street vs catacombs - couldn't be further apart!!

The catacombs (as guys from ISG term it) is a series of dirt floored hovels next to the swimming pool behind the Walter hotel where locals go to, to pop a gal for RMB 30.  Flower street refers to the KTV girl line ups - they are in a hall where guys walk through and the largest flower street is at the Mayflower which proudly displays up to 1,500 girls weekend nights.

On truck drivers - yes they were really doing well as there were very few of them who has dual driving licences - Hong Kong/China and the majority of exports in those days still went out through Hong Kong Ports (yantian port in Shenzhen was non-existent then). And yes, I KNOW that is the amount that they could make up to - trust me, I know this. But please note I'm talking about HK$!

And if you're surprised at the population of Dongguan - try imagining TWICE that number for Shenzhen! And this is a place that barely existed 35 years ago.

SEAN

[ Last edited by  SEAJ at 28-1-2012 02:09 ]

IF you do come to China and CP, PLEASE KEEP A LOW PROFILE.  CP is currently the last strong hold of Southern China for mongering.  I have been to many cities in Southern China, ruff traveling alone, when your Chinese is terrible. Many places have been TONE DOWN or GONE.  Please don't be obnoxious, rude, drunk and respect the local people. My friends tell me they see this in Thailand all the time of foreigners. They think they own the place.

It just takes one incident, ( like where a foreigner gets hurt or killed especially if you are NON-ASIAN ) that is when the newspapers/Internet gets involved. Then the gov't has to step in.

Years ago, the New Century and Amazon were two of the top KTV. This is before Mayflower, Eurasia, Jiayi were around. There was an article in a magazine about CP and Amazon KTV in 2004. About 3 weeks later the place was RAIDED and closed for a few months. Many others places were RAIDED too and closed. I posted the 4-5 article see link below.

Another example was in Zhuhai. About 9 years ago there was an orgy in a 5 star hotel. It was organized by a group of around 400 Japanese. There were about 600 girls. Many girls and guys  were running around in the hallways naked. Doors were opened were you could see the action with 4 to 5 girls and 2-3 guys naked. There were plenty of complains by other guess. This orgy lasted for 3 days and they over paid many of the girls. Damm I missed out. Well, News got out and it made an international incident. The gov't step in and clamped down hard on many places in Zhuhai. It took about 3 years for Zhuhai to recover.

My favorite place in Southern China was Sha Tsui. SZ. It was RAIDED in 2006. This place had over 3000 girls. They parade girls and customers for everyone to see after the RAID. This place now is only about 20% of what it was before.


PLEASE KEEP A LOW PROFILE AND DON'T MAKE A SEEN. The less noise the better.


LINK TO OLD MAGAZINE ARTICLE
http://forum.sex141.com/eforum/v ... ighlight=%2BWeelock


edit: grammar errors a a few typos.

[ Last edited by  Weelock at 28-1-2012 15:13 ]

Got a totally idle/left field question for you guys.

Am trying to buy an IPhone4 (NOT 4S) for somebody in China.  Got offered a few supposedly "jail broken" or Gevey carded sets (from the States?) in China - but I hear that these sets have a whole lot of problems and never seem to work well in the long run.

Friends tells me that I should just get a set from Hong Kong - either a new one or even a 2nd hand one somewhere in Mongkok.

Questions:
1. Where in Mongkok can I buy these 2nd hand Iphone4?
2. How much should I be looking at paying for a 2nd hand one?
3. What do I look out for when buying these used phones?
4. How do I know if it is a "genuine" Hong Kong phone or one of those jail broken US sets?
5. Do you think it a good idea to buy a used Iphone4 - or should I just get a new one?
6. If getting a new Iphone4 - where do I go to get it and what is the price for these new ones.

In other words - I'm totally clueless about IPhones and would appreciate ANY guidance!! Please.....!!!

SEAN

Last year, I brought two from the USA into China.

One was a brand new Iphone 4, 32g. I don't remember what was the OS. I saw the seller open the box and hooked it up to Itunes / Internet to register it. The second was a used 16g Iphone 4. I also don't remember the OS.  Both so far there has not been an problems. I think there would have told me by now.

There is an option where you can switch back and forth different languages. Chinese was an option and I did it a few times, switching back and forth. Some Iphones need to be jailbroken, were a different carrier can be used. ie China Moblie and not ATT.


I have heard some of the Iphones in HK and China are parts from broken phones. They assembled parts together to make a working Iphone.  

Suggest getting an Iphone 4S and not the Iphone 4. If momey is an problem get a use Iphone 4S.

Check craigslist.org for used and new to compare prices in HK.

I hope they don't ask me to get an Iphone 5 when it comes out later this year.

[ Last edited by  Weelock at 28-1-2012 17:00 ]

A used Iphone 4, I'm just going to chip in my 2 cents for you.

1. While exploring Mong Kok back in December I discovered a mall that carried used phones including the new iphone 4S. But I'm sure that they had the iphone 4 there as well. It's located on the corner of Fa Yuen Street and Argyle Street. The entrance is on Fa Yuen Street. the location is shown on the map:
http://tinyurl.com/7ll68kp

2. The prices will vary for a used iphone4 but should be considerably cheaper than the iphone4S or even a new one. What I would do is check online how much a used phone would run for and base your estimates on that. Then there's always the method to try asking different sellers too, they'll have their own prices set out and asking only makes you a potential customer.
3,878.05 HKD  seems to be the base price for a decent used iphone4.  The cheapest price I've seen so far is 1,783.90 HKD. These prices to vary so it's up to you to find a seller who will work with you.

3. What you want to look our for is how worn out it looks. Hold it check for the usual scratches and scuffs. Also it's advisable you open her up and check the battery area as well. I'd also ask them if they can turn it on. From here you have a checklist of things to check out. Check if the WiFi is working, bluetooth, the SIM tray, play with it to check if the touchscreen works, dead pixels, stuck pixels, the home button (if you have to press it hard to work then no), the microphone (should have voice memos app to check), plug your headphones in to check the connection, speakers, the accelerometer (the sensor that senses when the iphone is turned sideways or not), plug it in to see if it charges, the cameras (front and back), and the proximity sensor as well (sensor that detects when your face is close to the screen so it can shut off). It is a long list of things to check over but these are all the pretty features that makes it an iphone.

4. I'm not sure how to tell a genuine HK phone or one from the US. Although I have heard that the map for a Mainland Iphone4, the maps are all in set in simplified Chinese characters.

5. A used iphone4 wil provide you the same things at a lower price but it all depends on if the used ones are up to your standards. A new one may be nice too but if you've got a goal to buy used you should stick to that. A new one will just be a backup plan.

6. The apple store lists an unlocked iphone 4 for 4,288 HKD. I would recommend the apple store and that price is from the Hong Kong Apple Store. If not you could look around at local dealers too but most of them are going to have the iphone4S on hand but it never hurts to ask.

Sorry I wasn't able to provide more insight but I'm glad to say that I did my best.    
Happy hunting!