I recently did a report with a face picture. The photo was "approved" by her but we did not discuss publishing it on the forum. How does that work?

Can one assume, as she was a BTP HG that her photo with clear face is somewhere in the DB?

Or can one assume that her approving my photo she most probably knows I would/could put it up in the forum? Or should we assume, as we should outside this forum, there is no "implicit agreement"?

Or does one need to always discuss it explictly? If so, what tips do the moderators suggest when we don't speak a common language?

The language barrier was a big problem to even discuss about the face picture. So even if the photo in the end was not made in any sneaky way, is it considered sneaky to publish it on the forum without explicit consent?

Thank you for asking a very good question ...
This is something that's started to become really relevant in this forum because the number of posted pictures
have increase dramatically !

Idealiy, pictures of WGs posted in this forum should have the consent of the person photographed, pictures of
GF or FB are discouraged.

There is no way for anyone to check or confirm that the posted pictures have consent, we just have to rely on the
word of the poster and his interpretation of the situation.

Over the last few months we have started to put RA levels on pictures, for newbies and members who cannot
put a RA level on their attachments mods will do it for them. Generally a RA level of 20 for face shots and RA30
for body shots in a state of undress. Blatant shots of pussies and dicks are discouraged.

There cannot be any formal rule of thumb on this, so it is not necessary to ask each time but if there are questions
about the posted pictures they will be asked on a need to act basis.

can we just host the pic somewhere else?

of course, and put the link in the thread   

With so many mongering experts in the forum, I feel we have the unique opportunity to come together with a reasonable solution. The problems I guess would be great to solve:

1- How to approach the topic of a pic? Experience bros, walk up to the soap box and speak up
2- How to encourage her to agree to a pic?
3- What type of pics are the most important? Face? Face+Body? Body without face?
4- Ethics about when the retry index is low. Should one avoid pics? Why should she agree to a pic in those cases?

Once we form some opinion from the pros here, we might even be able to make a 10 minute cantonese/mandarin/thai/viet course to not allow language barrier to get in the way

i like face photos the best...but even body with clothing is good too, does not have to be naked

Actually, I hate contradicting Twice, but I feel that it's better to attach the photos as "attachments" to the post for a number of reasons:

1. You can set the RA level for each photo separately from the RA level for the thread (or forum section).
2. The photos stay with the thread regardless of whether the "hosting" site bans it, deletes it, or just goes offline.
3. The subject index for each section denotes threads with pictures with this: , images hosted elsewhere aren't indicated in any way.

So unless there's some reason why an image hosting site is NEEDED, I think it's best to post pictures along with your threads.

-G

I'm not sure if I'm considered an expert or not, but the guideline is to use common sense. The purpose is to provide useful information to fellow punters, so get what you can. Anything helps. Ideally, face and body, either together or separate, and naked if you can, but with clothes or underwear is fine. It's not pornography, so try to keep your dick off camera!

As to the ethics related to a low score. Why not ask for a pic, if the DB pics are misleading, then exposing the fraud seems like quid pro quo for tricking you to book her in the first place.

I don't speak Cantonese or Mandarin, but manage to get pics by holding up the camera and saying, " Please". Sometimes I use sign language. Most of the time it works and I get a shot. Even without a common language, I manage to get the point across. I think it helps that I'm respectful of the girls, so getting pics at the end of a session may be easier if you've handled them well. I also often take "self-portraits" with the girls next to me. Nearly nobody refuses a photo when you put your arm around them and aim the camera at yourself.

-G

[ Last edited by  G-A-R-Y at 27-5-2009 20:15 ]

I would consider you an expert. Of course there is always people with more experience to look up to no matter how much experience you might have ;)


For HG and other DB girls that's right. Of the 4 WGs I had this week, only one was in the DB (Vi Vi). I thought her picture would be ok because BTP girls have their pics in the DB unscrambled anyway. The DB pics were even quite accurate in her case.

I guess my real issue is I have difficulties separating the "personal" and the "business". For me when we judge a WG, we are kind of judging her. I don't find my own thoughts that I am judging what she does very satisfying. I feel we judge them not only on service but also the looks. That feels so personal and the situation with picture feels even more personal. I still have difficulties reconciling the 2 things (paid service that could be judged and simply girls trying to do a living).


I am with you on that one. I am sure any bro who wants to can always manage with sign language. But that would just be the be allowed to make the picture. Without language it is near impossible to ask for consent for publishing on the site. I realize we are on the border-line in the forum and mods also might have an interest not being too clear (assuming posters got consent). The purpose here was to see if there is any chance lots of clever and experienced punters could think of a way to do it right. It probably is in most WGs interest to get "free advertising" with photo anyway right? I just feel there must be a way for everyone to have their rights be respected. It will not be perfect either but it could help improve?

If you paid them money for sex it's business. As far as consent goes, I think we're dealing with more of a "truth in advertising" issue than a privacy one. The reports can be good or bad for their business depending whether they perform well. Generally the enlightened papas know that reports are good. Considering how over PSed the photos are in the DB, the reports are a big part of what differentiates the girls.

I'm always clear with the girls (that speak English) that I'm going to write a report. And if the service is good and the girl is the one I expected, I call the papa afterward to thank him at tell him that I'm going to write a favorable report. There aren't that many papas, I think they know that I'm going to take pics and post reports by now. I'm considered a good client by several of the papas now, so I'm pretty sure that this isn't viewed negatively.

One word of note, if you're REALLY concerned about the impact of the reports on the women; just rate the girl, not the papa (at least not negatively). In your report on Vi Vi, it seems like you're irritated with BTP for the wait and the switching, but were OK with Vi Vi. As others said in that thread, it's not her fault that you showed up at her door and not the one you wanted. In the past I haven't always done this, but it's something I do now.

-G

I guess you are right. I feel more confortable with the idea with reports and also with photos.

I'll train up my mando/canto to be able to discuss reporting with the WG. But I am not sure I will ever feel confortable telling them I will write up a report on them

For the rating of papasan+girl, I do feel that is business. If you can't get to the girl without the papasan, the papasan becomes part of the experience. Of course, I am sure just like with a WG, not all experiences will be the same. And I understand your point. Me complaining of BTP won't do much to "his rating" since he is in this since so long and has so many good contacts both punter and (nice) WGs. Of course the impact of such a rating is stronger on the WG herself. But stand by my "method" of rating both together.

Any way, thousand thanks for your perspective. It helps me a lot on the moral/ethical ground.

There's no contradiction ... if the thread has links to pics and RA is necessary, then the thread carries the RA.
But like you say, if the pics are attached its easier to control.
There is a problem that the present server is close to capacity, a few months ago speed during peak hours
were very slow. Anything with very large eile sizes should be linked.

To make it clear for those who read this. TwiceAWeek, a moderator, has already made clear he wants the girls to consent.

1) An excellent argument against making photos without that was given to me tonight (P.M.) was that many girls are being exploited and could get into trouble if a photo is published with more or less consequences. You don't want to live with being responsible for such consequences and this argument has a strong weight. So even when a WG has a photo in the DB and the photo is heavily PSed, we should respect her privacy if she does not consent because we otherwise might endanger her.

My mini-counterargument to this does not change the consent factor. But for me, we should really try to find ways to avoid sustaining such abuse of the WG. Now this is a massive topic that is hard to discuss within a thread about photos. I am not sure at all how to even start guessing which WG is being exploited and which are not.

2) A real counter-argument against a mandatory consent (which is however irrelevant because of the argument above for consent), is the parallel to celebs. Celebs are very often photographed without consent. It is accepted because they sell their image and become public figures. Becoming a celeb, there is an implicit acceptance of photos. It is a dodgy argument made by paparazzis of course. In the case of WGs who publish their photos in the DB, we have a better case than the paparrazzis. They lured us to visit them using those photos. We should be allowed to make and publish photos without consent (that is if they advertise without face we should not publish faces without consent). This argument however does not work for WGs in HK as WGs are quite poorly protected by law and there is a certain amount of exploitation of the girls. Because we do not wish to endanger them, we should still require consent.

So my mini-conclusion, which is mostly an agreement with some other posts:
1- Ask for consent to publish photos. I don't think we need to be anal about the type of consent but ideally you should have discussed of your intentions of reporting and publishing the photo.
2- If you feel really abused by a false advertising (or B&S), then either tell the papasan/mamasan there was a mistake or if it is a Walk-up, just walk away. Understand that photos you will make with your 5c camera and poor lighting and poor photographic skills will not do her more justice than the photoshopped ones. In case of abuse you want to communicate, your message will be understood even without photo.
3- When they do consent, some WGs will prefer body only photos others face only and others will accept full photos. Bros "voted" that anything helps. Even with clothes. Photos with consent of face where the face was not in the DB should be RAed to 20. Full naked or action photos should be RAed 30 (but some mods expressed a dislike of seeing your little bro in those pics no matter the RA).

Agreed. Now stop writing about this and go out and get some more pictures!

-G

So you guys declare that photos you take are for the Internet? And more specifically you name which forum they will be uploaded to? To both the girls and the papasans?

I never tell them what the photos are for beyond I love taking pics of hot girls... I certainly never tell them I'm part of a sex forum, or that their pics could end up on it!!

I don't mention it and I am not even sure who to approach such a topic even if the WG and I had a common language to communicate in. I suppose that in 2009, a HG who has an entry in the DB with her face visible in clear, and who consents to a photo, implicitely consents to its publishing.

I say this but I only made one photo.

I think G-A-R-Y's approach is the cleanest. It clearly protects WGs on privacy concerns as well as HK's special "double standard" for copyright. See the interpretation of some HK journalist on http://www.thestandard.com.hk/ne ... 5661&con_type=3

To me, from what I read on the interpretation of some bloke, G-A-R-Y's approach might even be the only legal way going forward:
http://articles.yuikee.com.hk/newsletter/2008/02/a.html

I do wonder how we are supposed to do any such thing without mastering the language and even guess it is not really possible.

I am no lawyer and have little clue. I just discovered for example that there are obscenity laws in HK?! It seems illegal to publish, take, ... erotic pictures?! Sounds like it is a set of laws that need to be worked on and adapted to this century. I have no idea what applied here as I understand the forum is not in HK. Note all of this is just confusing, poorly documented laws (as far as it covers the 141 industry) and I am not a lawyer. I probably just confused you as much as I confused myself.

I now regret I got curious and I certainly preferred the time when "common sense" and "basic ethics" were the rule. I assume they remain the rules of the forum.

====

G-A-R-Y, I just got an 8000 HKD budget increase approved to my WG budget by HK gov tax cuts.. but it does not mean I am capable of blasting the whole budget within a week I need a break. I will go tomorrow to Macau and try out D1. Next week I will be back into the HK based WGs.

Go on you. Have fun!

-G

Now this girls name say's it all... is there any doubt as to whether you should post her video?

http://www.sex141.com/en/viewid.php?uid=1035

-G

Hey! Link does not work :-( Mistake in copy/paste? I do hope they don't take off gals on the DB every time they are linked from the forum ;-)

most PRC girls wouldn't want their pics to be seen online..
especially those young PRC girls..
they have the mentality of "i just doing this for quick $$$, i'm out of this profession in 6 months' time!"
of course, 99% of them never get out.
i usually say i keep the photos for easy future reference.
that's why i need a face photo + their number tag... this usually can net a full body head-to-toe photo shot.
if you intend to tip, then tip before asking for the photo.
if you don't intend to tip, then ask for photo first.

for non-PRC girls.. (especially Thai & Viet), it's EASY..
they jump at every opportunity to have their photo taken.
i guess they are less embarrassed of their profession..
and while they are at it, they want full exposure to reap in as much $$$ as possible.

like what Gary has mentioned, cheek-to-cheek posing will almost guarantee a photo.
most of them don't know photo-editing could be done easily..