Isn't "pay me or go fuck yourself" a universal set of belief in all countries in the world?it's just in china they act it out right in front of you, but in western countries they still do the same thing except not as blatant and do it with a smile and phrase it nicer?


Asndragon

"Pay me or go fuck yourself" presents itself as THE opportunity where one can take full advantage of the situation.

IMHO, it's way easier to deal with counter-parties who are quite up-front with their intentions/aims versus dealing with one who's all sugar and spice/evasive as to their real agenda....and who'll bite your ass as soon as your back's turned.

Take the example of an out and out WG versus one who's "oh, I don't usually this, or I really have never charged before so, I really don't know how much etc"

Get the drift of my thinking?

SEAN

OK, this is a China-centric board, as it should be, and i appreciate the comments above which seem to relate mostly to southern China.

but a lot of us bros travel to Thailand for fun--as many of u know, i used to live there and have definite opinions on behavior/dress/manners which i believe are worth hearing before any monger-trip to the Kingdom.

and i've also mentioned Stickman's column--it has plenty of useful tidbits and often the collected wisdom of an interviewee. his column last Sunday had the words of a longtime Pattaya resident, an outspoken character. this is a guy who LIVES there, has a lot of experience, and who firmly states things i concur with. again, i've lived there, i speak the language passably, have had a lot of experience with Thai WGs and while i think the whole interview is worth reading (the link is below), i've excerpted some outstanding quotes and reproduce them below.

if the idea of a sex-holiday in Thailand interests you, whether you've been or not, please read his words. very few people will tell you these things so directly. IN Thailand, u should never be direct--deflect, joke, dress well. but what he says should be printed and posted above every urinal in Pattaya:
=============
Everything here is a lie.  Everything here is a lie and if you believe it you are a fool. That's the best way to put it.  You play the game and don't let the game play you, and if you do, you can have the time of your life.
++++++++++++++++
A Thai girl once told me a lie is not a lie if it is told in English.  Only if it is spoken in Thai is it considered a lie.  English means nothing to them and they see us as weak.
++++++++++++++++
Once you understand that everything here is about money then you'll be fine…Take it for what it is, not for what you want it to be and enjoy the moment.  But let the moment go.

Catch and release.  Catch and release.  You've gotta release.  If you don't release, it is going to turn into a disaster.  I don't collect phone numbers because that's emotional.  Never collect phone numbers.  I tell them I found you once, I will find you again.  I never let them sleep with me overnight.  They never stay in my bed.  I have not slept with a woman for 3 years.
++++++++++++++++
The more money you pay, the more the girl hates you...  If you are going to pay 5,000 baht to short time a girl she despises you.  I got girls that I get on well with and I take them for 300 baht.  These are my 300 baht girls.  We are more like mates now.  Cool chicks and we have a great time.  I have a better experience with a 300 baht girl than I would with a 5,000 baht girl.
++++++++++++++++
No girl is worth 5,000 baht. That's just insane.  Damn!  I never pay more than 1,000 baht.  Never ever!  That includes barfine.  I'll pay 300 baht barfine and 700 baht short time.  If that's not acceptable I walk away.  There are plenty more.

"The Shark"
interviewed by Stickman
http://www.stickmanbangkok.com/S ... ttaya-shark-man.htm

[ Last edited by  JackTheBat at 2-7-2012 23:01 ]

He's a survivor, I bet, but a jaded, cold, barren survivor.  And he's just dipping his toein the water and calling it swimming.

Actually I sorta agree with your assessment.

I've read the whole interview and to me it comes across as the typical type of guy who'd had a lot of hard breaks in his life to be where he is today.  Yeah, he'd survived and I GUESS survived OK given his circumstances and seemingly continuing struggles against real and well as things that he himself put up as bulwarks.

One thing for sure, I'd never want to be in his shoes - always calculating, always on the look-out, always trying to survive instead of just living life normally.
Others may think differently - that a monger needs to have all his "survival instincts" intact and always in use - but I would much rather just enjoy "the ride."

SEAN - am I just an old softee?

[ Last edited by  SEAJ at 3-7-2012 11:01 ]

thx for comments...suggest u read the full interview and see pix of the guy. i've seen a lot of "jaded, cold, barren survivors" in Thailand--check out this guy's pic/full interview and see if u think that's an accurate descrip.

my excerpted quotes are out of context, but one key point is that if u overpay, TGs really will think less of u. over the years, SO MANY tourists have overpaid that there's now a feedback-loop of disrespect. the other key point which i should have left in is that he keeps his fridge stocked with beer and snacks. when he describes his fave gals as "mates...cool chicks and we have a great time," that's what my year in Bangkok was like.

he has his style and i have mine, we're very different types of mongers but he's dead-on about what TGs like and respect. do NOT overpay: show them a good time. again, he lives there, as i did, but we both figured it out...and oh yes you have a great time.

as i can't go back and edit the post, six lengthy hours having passed, go ahead and check out the unedited version, see what u think, he's a character:

http://www.stickmanbangkok.com/S ... ttaya-shark-man.htm

JtB

Yes, I DID read the whole thing and yes I DID see how he looks.

His overgrown muscles, his "Gold" prominently on display, all his talk of bravado - all this point to a needy, chip-on-shoulder self-image problems, crying out for attention.  I mean that he would specifically talk about "his Gold" - OMG - how very like most Chang Ping WG's - their total net worth is in the IPhone they proudly display...before another WG steals it from her!!

THB 1,000  ALL IN for a Patts gal? Come on - give me a break - in today's Pattaya, it’s only the old, washed-up, drugged and diseased Beach Road dregs that would go with anybody - never mind somebody who looks (and probably act) like him for this amount. And he talks about THB 300 - bar fine?  Tell me which bar in Pattaya would be stupid enough to only stock their bar with gals that can only charge THB 300 bar fine?  

And remember the old saying about "birds of a feather flocking together" - well, Mr Shark fits right in with these dregs of Pattaya. His assertion that he don't need no more friends? Well....would anybody actually like to be friends with this guy...excepting "Birds of the same feather!!"

And him being a Loan shark - in Pattaya of all places!! Loan sharks by the very nature of their "profession" are purely predatory and nasty individuals - why would anyone look up to him as a role model?  And all this nonsense about having owned 3 Lambros in his previous incarnation down under - Big deal if true - but I'd suspect it’s just one more bluster in his many self deception.

People who has even 2 cars of the same make would most likely have tens more of other make and type of cars - and I've not even heard of anybody who would only own 3 of the same make AND TYPE of car.

Great that you've brought this interview up on here - coz it amply shows us that NOT every monger is a good guy....and that we do have to watch out for characters like this guy.  
Thanks!!

SEAN - Yup, I definitely AM AND PREFER to be an old softee!!

yup, quotes out of context are always risky ... certainly Sharky is far from being a role model that many people would want to emulate! ... and noone should ever be afflicted with his experience of growing up as a kid.  So I think your own personal observations and experience will carry more weight than his: we just don't look like he does and (thankfully) won't make the impression he makes.  

I do agree about overpaying, I don't know anywhere that overpaying gets you additional respect, and especially not in Asia.  
You get a lot more respect for knowing your way around, and fitting in, and being able to challenge the ways people try to take advantage of your possible ignorance

and - especially from girls - you get a TON more respect for speaking her language ... that is (another quote out of context) where I do agree with him, there's much less emotional connection in speaking a foreign language than in being spoken to in your own mother tongue.  Come to that, I'm not actually agreeing with Sharky, as much as agreeing with what he has been told by the girls who are willing to talk to him.  

One of the best ways I know to get genuine GFE is to speak her language.  

But Sharky won't ever find that out

his suit of armour is too thick

I read the article, and yes it does give it some context, explaining why he is a jaded, cold barren survivor.  I can understand the reasons why he hasn't slept with a women in three years,  and says the friendship door closed years ago - "I probably will never make another friend again"

It is a bit sad that someone so tough looking now fears emotion so much that he completely shuts it out.  

As a biography, his is a compelling story.  As advice?  I'm happier suffering through the occasional heartache.

I just wonder what goes through his head when he is hanging out with one of his bargirl 'mates' who come over to raid his 'fridge.  If he feels a pang of something, does he just repress it?  Depressing...

I did see a big tattoed guy in Pats when I was there, maybe it was him.

Its weird/Strange that in your other thread - where you've posted up the same post to initiate discussion -that things seems to have taken a totally different direction!!

Great as it seems that we here on the ICT seems to have taken it much more seriously, done our reading and I'd opine given more substantial and well thought out replies.

Just an observation

SEAN - Hmmmmm...!

Ok, its 20 days since OUR thread got curtailed on June 13, and these are some stats AND MY OWN INTERPRETATION of such.

For the 20 day period:
ICT posts 245
Forum post total 3786

Thus we have now WELL EXCEEDED our previous approximate contribution to the forum of 4.6% of all posts.
For the 20 days, we have contributed 6.47% - proving to a large extent that we have all along just been participating on the ICT and NOT TO DO ANY FORM OF KARMA TRADING/WHORING. NOTE - even without karma awards and posting credits, we all STILL continue to participate, and even participate at 40% higher rate.

But sadly, amongst the 245 posts, only a few handful was directed at/concerning newer members...and that's such a waste as this thread WAS meant to help the newer members to come along and become good contributing members.

And I still cannot fathom why if anybody had a problem with SEAJ - that any retribution/action should NOT ONLY BE directed at SEAJ?  
Why all these restriction on OTHERS who had done no wrong at all on the ICT?

SEAJ

[ Last edited by  SEAJ at 3-7-2012 15:23 ]

This thread is closet thing on 141 forum to a chat room. The forum Engine is very limited and doesn't have a chat room.

[ Last edited by  Weelock at 3-7-2012 15:46 ]

but, seaj: "retribution" that elicits a huge collective yawn was never retribution in the first place!

can you please relax about everyone who is supposed to be upset and angry about the changes, about all those people we're not hearing a peep from??  

you're upset, that's clear enough

but your thread - your legacy - is going ahead just fine in its new home, in spite of the changes you're protesting.  

if you're so concerned about the participants who are upset, who are they?  I'd love to know ...

Oh - you back on here?!  Oh forgot...you're the mayor here aintcha!!  LOL!

I'm upset and as far as I'm concerned, that's all that matters.
Yeah, you'd like to know...Of COURSE!

SEAJ

i posted this on Mongers Lounge and reproduce it here...as SEAJ noted, it's interesting that the same quotes elicit different responses.
++++++++++++
i don't agree 100% with this guy, but i DO think his views need to be heard. agree or disagree, give it a think.

i lived in Bangkok, not Pattaya, and i collected plenty of phone numbers and certain ladies (the Red Ant in particular) were invited for sleepovers. and pillowfights.

but i also say learn the local language and culture as much as you can. most of the WGs in Thailand come from poor areas: 5K baht feeds their family or their village for a month. they can't understand why some guy would pay that for a simple sex act, just pulling the cash out of their pocket as if buying a bag of sliced pineapple, and expect them to be impressed. they really DON'T like that, it won't impress them, quite the reverse. maybe i should have just put that one quote in.

if you pay reasonable amounts, demonstrate that while your funds may be limited, the amount of FUN you create is not, you WILL have a great time. i also kept my fridge stocked with snacks, this is important (the Shark says he keeps his stocked with whisky and beer, well, that's his party).

i wanted to spark discussion, but for me the main point is: respect the local culture, which means speaking Thai as much as possible, not overpaying, treating the girls well, providing a fun atmosphere with snacks/drinks/movies as appropriate and not putting up with any BS, but doing it with a smile. if you can manage that you can have an AMAZING time in Thailand.

JtB

Oh I agree with you on all this - but only up to a point --- or several actually!!

One point that I'd stop at is when a foreigner, who HAS learned the language, who HAS lived at the foreign place a long time then turn all patronising or demanding that he must be abided to by one and all...as he supposedly "knows" the natives thoroughly - even better than the natives themselves!!

The other point is when he uses his "local" knowledge to take too much advantage. Going around berating all and sundry for daring to even try to make a fair return on anything, that since he's now "local" and is a regular customer, that he must be accorded "the best" etc. And oh yeah, that since he is both foreign as well as replete with local knowledge, that he IS the Great White Saviour of all.  Don't know how to accurately describe all this - but I hope you all can conjure up your own image of how some "local" foreigners can be - especially when hitting a rough patch in his adopted country.

And I see Sharky as ALWAYS hitting a rough patch in Thailand - I mean - what kind of a life is it for a loan shark ANYWHERE; and in Pattaya?  

And as far as pulling whatever it is from our pockets - most of us are just simple mongers who wants the best that one can reasonably expect under the circumstances - WITHOUT having to think and re-think everything. Why the continual drama and introspection and rules and having to think the worst about everything?  Everything is a Lie? Yeah - but so what?  Like I said, Sharky thinks too highly of himself and his own significance; all of us are mere mortals amongst 6 billion others and if I could say something to him, I'd say "Take it easy Bro - away from the world that you've  created yourself, it really ain't all that bad!"


SEAN - But what the hell do I know??!!  LOL!

Sharky, he's a hate him or love him type of guy.  He's got a couple valid points as well as some ignorant ones.  

Having been in China for 7-8 years, I've seen plenty of jaded think they know it all expats.  Seaj makes a very fair point when he says :

" The other point is when he uses his "local" knowledge to take too much advantage. Going around berating all and sundry for daring to even try to make a fair return on anything, that since he's now "local" and is a regular customer, that he must be accorded "the best" etc. And oh yeah, that since he is both foreign as well as replete with local knowledge, that he IS the Great White Saviour of all.  Don't know how to accurately describe all this - but I hope you all can conjure up your own image of how some "local" foreigners can be - especially when hitting a rough patch in his adopted country."  

I do agree with Sharky when he says " once you understand that everything here is about money, then you'll be fine. "  IMO this is absolutely true when messing abouts with seasoned working girls, to think otherwise would be quite naive.

In China, "if you can solve the problem using money, then it's not really a problem anymore."

or so the saying goes.


Weelock-- i concur! the ICT is like the chat room! thus explains why there is so much participation. people come on here to just talk and express their opinions on a variety of topics, which makes it so interesting.


AsnDragon

Yes, I do see that the ICT IS a pretty nice place to just hang around and chit chat away.  But I also see it as a sort of incubator

- to uncover topics of interest, which a member or another would then just post up as a separate thread for board-wide discusion

- to welcome newbies/newer members into our fold, give him a certain amount of comfort and feeling of belonging ...and hopefully for him to then go on to other parts of our board to establish his own bona fides. In fact, I'd like to think that quite a few of guys who are back here right now are the same ones who HAD first dipped his toes in the 141 waters on the ICT.

And it is these newbies/newer members who are NOT back on here of late. And yes, I'd think it has a lot to do with the fact that the ICT is now a non-posting credit thread and worse, where NO K's are allowed.

At the same time that the restrictions on the ICT was put on, I also started a totally Fluff Thread on the Mainland china section:
http://forum.sex141.com/eforum/v ... 9427&highlight=
entitled "OK - Who's the wanker (s) here??!!"

And this thread has not only kept on going, significantly, it has attracted a whole slew of newbies/newer members - GmPink, HaungPUGuy. Teltel, Jeongjun, laidbackbro, lalala, rasak as well as attracted back a few who had for the past few months been sort of inactive on the board - lowrider, Jiebon, Geoduck, Season.

And of course during the same period, the ICT had managed to only attract 1 or 2 newbie/newer members to participate here.....!!

SEAN - sigh.....!

[ Last edited by  SEAJ at 4-7-2012 18:24 ]

Hey guys...was away for a bit and took me a while to find this thread.

Anyway, I got a question. I just checked the Macau 141 page http://mo.nightlife141.com/zh/ and discovered that the photos of the sauna girls are gone. Any idea where they went?