WaterbottleS
Nookie Newbie
Rank: 1



UID 55927
Digest Posts 0
Credits 50
Posts 31
Karma 49
Acceptance 17
Reading Access 10
Registered 24-11-2010
Status Offline
Post at 16-4-2013 08:58  Profile P.M. 
Font size: S M L
Job market in Asia

Gents,

I'm probably asking the most absurd question on this board however i have absolutely zero knowledge of the job market in Hong Kong and mainland China so at this moment, any insight would be greatly appreciated.

A FRIEND of mine, ahmm... not me... is a Cisco certified network professional (CCNP), he has over 8 years experience in the networking field and currently employed as an engineer at a telecom service provider firm. Pay is great, job is great, nothing to complain about here but ultimately he see's a life for himself in Asia - maybe it's for the pooning or the A++ wonton noodles but who cares. Questions he has Are:

- With the above qualifications and certification would he be able to live comfortably in Hong Kong or mainland China?
- How is the job market now in Asia?
- Is consulting a viable option in?
- Do Asian firms prefer oversea candidates?
- What are the working hours like in Asia? 9-5 Mondays to Fridays?

Much thanks in advance
Top
rockypop
Lustful Lord
Rank: 4



UID 11671
Digest Posts 0
Credits 595
Posts 709
Karma 594
Acceptance 25
Reading Access 40
Registered 25-5-2008
Status Offline
Post at 16-4-2013 13:13  Profile P.M. 
Font size: S M L
I can comment that working hours in Asia is NOT 9-5 Monday to Friday.  Your friend should be thinking USA or Germany

Hong Kong working hours are Monday-Friday and Saturday mornings (at the very least).
Top
DArtagnan (unofficial Mayor of the Forum)
Master Mongerer
Rank: 8Rank: 8


UID 12884
Digest Posts 0
Credits 5034
Posts 4392
Karma 4928
Acceptance 2111
Reading Access 80
Registered 10-7-2008
Location Pitcairn
Status Offline
Post at 16-4-2013 14:12  Profile P.M. 
Font size: S M L
Reply #1 WaterbottleS's post

Some broad opinions

- With the above qualifications and certification would he be able to live comfortably in Hong Kong or mainland China?
Being CCNP is not enough - unless he has specialised skills, such as project management, or proven technical sales skills, it'll be really hard for him to compete with someone who speaks several local languages, who is willing to work day and night to learn new tech.  It would work in his favour if he has proven management skills and also has knowledge of newly emerging tech that might not be rolled out here yet.  

- How is the job market now in Asia?
It's been worse, and has been better.  Salaries are generally robust, but it's by no means an employees market.  

- Is consulting a viable option in?
Employers very much prefer to hire full-time, and prefer to hire locals (who don't need a Work Visa, don't ask for living expenses, and who speak local languages).  However, if someone has unique skills that are rare in the World, there are always a limited number of consulting opportunities.  
But the market for consulting is nowhere near as well developed in Asia as it is in Europe or USA.  There are very few employment agencies that deal with contract or consulting work, and the T&C need to be negotiated case by case as there are few precedents to draw on.  
Again, it depends on having niche qualifications, and staying specialised in a narrow field that is a) mission critical but b) doesn't have enough work in any one company to justify a full-time role.

- Do Asian firms prefer oversea candidates?
Are you kidding me?  If they can possibly hire local they will.  You have a much stronger possibility of being employed by a multinational, since their management are already comfortable with visa requirements and may be fed up with dealing with a local culture that they don't understand and may be struggling with.  But any employer will only ever consider an overseas candidate for a role they've already tried to fill locally and failed, so you start with a built-in handicap.  If they don't do so for practical reasons, they must do so to comply with employment legislation.  

- What are the working hours like in Asia? 9-5 Mondays to Fridays?
Actually much closer to 5-9 than 9-5.  
With Saturdays and sometimes Sundays thrown in
... especially if travel is involved, which is highly likely in the sort of role that foreigners may be considered for.  
Oh, and the statutory minimum Annual Leave in Hong Kong is only 7 days per year ... in addition to the national Holidays that is, which are one day at a time.  Anything above that has to be negotiated and justified.  

That said, if I haven't put you off, go for it.  

But be aware that it won't be a cushy number to sell yourself, and it won't be a cushy number to justify the premium you have to charge ... because even if you accept a local package at a local salary, you will still be homesick and wanting to make enough to pay for an intercontinental flight at least once a year.  

All things considered, you may decide it's worth it.  Make the play.  Just don't burn any bridges before you've got a contract.

Recent Ratings
johnny12   16-4-2013 15:05  Acceptance  +2   Good read thx




Hear Ye!  The Mayor has spoken!
Top
kaleu
Throbbing Titan
Rank: 7Rank: 7Rank: 7


UID 45445
Digest Posts 0
Credits 3308
Posts 1512
Karma 3224
Acceptance 1672
Reading Access 70
Registered 24-5-2010
Location PRC
Status Offline
Post at 16-4-2013 19:34  Profile P.M. 
Font size: S M L


QUOTE:
Originally posted by DArtagnan at 16-4-2013 14:12
Oh, and the statutory minimum Annual Leave in Hong Kong is only 7 days per year ... in addition to the national Holidays that is, which are one day at a time.  Anything above that has to be negotiated and justified.

I would also add that if the holiday is on a Thursday (for example) and you think there will be a long 4 day weekend, think again.  They will often use a weekend day to replace the missed Friday.

Just get the contract as iron-clad as you can, and do not assume anything, no matter how trivial it might seem.
Top
sexwstrangers
Erotic Emperor
Rank: 6Rank: 6



UID 73123
Digest Posts 0
Credits 2301
Posts 504
Karma 2285
Acceptance 323
Reading Access 60
Registered 26-8-2011
Status Offline
Post at 16-4-2013 20:00  Profile P.M. 
Font size: S M L
Reply #1 WaterbottleS's post

China mainland working hours are what your company says they are. For your kind of work, consider 11 hour days, 5 days a week, with many Saturdays mandatory. No PTO, only government approved/mandated holidays.
Top
sirtiger (the banana)
Erotic Emperor
Rank: 6Rank: 6


UID 3407
Digest Posts 0
Credits 2609
Posts 2588
Karma 2586
Acceptance 465
Reading Access 60
Registered 27-9-2007
Location other side of the planet
Status Offline
Post at 16-4-2013 22:16  Profile P.M. 
Font size: S M L
question your friend has to ask is WHY would asia want to hire your friend?  If there is no discernable difference to set him apart....there is no draw to hire him.

I have friends who went back to asia after many years away....a handful can not adjust to the culture abroad.  Just saying its not so easy for many.
Top
timewaster
Erotic Emperor
Rank: 6Rank: 6


UID 7180
Digest Posts 0
Credits 2778
Posts 1944
Karma 2755
Acceptance 467
Reading Access 60
Registered 14-1-2008
Status Offline
Post at 17-4-2013 06:29  Profile P.M. 
Font size: S M L
wow. i thought walll street has long hours. you guys in HK are way worse.
Top
WaterbottleS
Nookie Newbie
Rank: 1



UID 55927
Digest Posts 0
Credits 50
Posts 31
Karma 49
Acceptance 17
Reading Access 10
Registered 24-11-2010
Status Offline
Post at 17-4-2013 10:17  Profile P.M. 
Font size: S M L
Woah. That's nuts. I didn't know hours where that crazy in Asia. That's almost a deal breaker right there. Well maybe the pay too. Thanks for the input

Recent Ratings
sexwstrangers   17-4-2013 21:09  Acceptance  +1   Lack of free time and pollution are big downers. Quality of life is better elsewhere.
Top
doghead (dog)
Erotic Emperor
Rank: 6Rank: 6



UID 16705
Digest Posts 0
Credits 2985
Posts 2230
Karma 2893
Acceptance 1832
Reading Access 60
Registered 2-12-2008
Status Offline
Post at 17-4-2013 12:51  Profile P.M. 
Font size: S M L
Reply #8 WaterbottleS's post

Hours may be long, but it doesn't feel so bad because everyone works long hours. You will not find it difficult at all to find people to eat dinner with you after 9pm. I don't know where you come from, but if you want to get a sense of the number of hours people in Asia are willing to work, go check out your local Asian-owned business. I am sure the majority work crazy hours, that is their primary business advantage...the willingness to work long hours.

You have to ask yourself, then why the hell are there so many expats in HK? Well, if they manage to stay and work hard for at least 5 years, then their compensation becomes quite comfortable. And it is especially so for the majority who are non-American citizens as they are not taxed by their government on income earned outside their home country. They are only responsible for paying the low HK salaries tax (approx 15%) and no other taxes. So though you may earn more back home, but your take total take home pay may be less because of your high salaries taxes back home.
Top
kaleu
Throbbing Titan
Rank: 7Rank: 7Rank: 7


UID 45445
Digest Posts 0
Credits 3308
Posts 1512
Karma 3224
Acceptance 1672
Reading Access 70
Registered 24-5-2010
Location PRC
Status Offline
Post at 17-4-2013 21:28  Profile P.M. 
Font size: S M L
They work long hours because there isn't much else to do, and it is so fucking hot during the day, no one wants to go out until after 10pm.

Keep in mind that working in HK and working on the mainland are not the same thing at all.
Top
WaterbottleS
Nookie Newbie
Rank: 1



UID 55927
Digest Posts 0
Credits 50
Posts 31
Karma 49
Acceptance 17
Reading Access 10
Registered 24-11-2010
Status Offline
Post at 18-4-2013 10:09  Profile P.M. 
Font size: S M L
you bring up the idea expats, now do those guys work the same hours as locals? Are they paid HKD or of their country of origin? At this point I think my friend is done with the idea of making a life in Asia however I do find everything said above to be quite an interesting read. He just assumed Hong Kong being first world would have much the same working hours/conditions as you would expect in States/Europe.

Can anyone explain how the housing market works in Hong Kong? I understand Apartments there are insanely expensive, someone even told me it was into the millions(USD) for a small sized place (500 sq feet)? I don't understand how anyone can afford to live in Hong Kong, even by North American standards that's absurd!! Factor in food, daily expenses, clothing into the equation and it's just ludicrous.

Edit:

Just thought of something. How the hell do some of you punt so much?? HAHAHA. I mean, when i pull in 6/7 day weeks i just feel like i wana just chill at home and veg out what remaining weekend i have left. Maybe I'm not use to the high work hours but punting will probably be the last thing on my mind if i had to slam 6 day weeks, 10+ hour shifts.

[ Last edited by  WaterbottleS at 18-4-2013 10:19 ]
Top
sexwstrangers
Erotic Emperor
Rank: 6Rank: 6



UID 73123
Digest Posts 0
Credits 2301
Posts 504
Karma 2285
Acceptance 323
Reading Access 60
Registered 26-8-2011
Status Offline
Post at 18-4-2013 20:23  Profile P.M. 
Font size: S M L


QUOTE:
Originally posted by kaleu at 17-4-2013 21:28
They work long hours because there isn't much else to do, and it is so fucking hot during the day, no one wants to go out until after 10pm.

That would make me shift my hours, not work more of them!

QUOTE:
Originally posted by kaleu at 17-4-2013 21:28
Keep in mind that working in HK and working on the mainland are not the same thing at all.

Exactly. No labor or safety standards at all on the mainland. Force people to sign away what few employment "rights" exist or else you will never be promoted. And so on.
Top
sexwstrangers
Erotic Emperor
Rank: 6Rank: 6



UID 73123
Digest Posts 0
Credits 2301
Posts 504
Karma 2285
Acceptance 323
Reading Access 60
Registered 26-8-2011
Status Offline
Post at 18-4-2013 20:25  Profile P.M. 
Font size: S M L


QUOTE:
Originally posted by WaterbottleS at 18-4-2013 10:09
ust thought of something. How the hell do some of you punt so much?? HAHAHA. I mean, when i pull in 6/7 day weeks i just feel like i wana just chill at home and veg out what remaining weekend i have left. Maybe I'm not use to the high work hours but punting will probably be the last thing on my mind if i had to slam 6 day weeks, 10+ hour shifts.

You've seen how hot the girls are, right?!
Top
sirtiger (the banana)
Erotic Emperor
Rank: 6Rank: 6


UID 3407
Digest Posts 0
Credits 2609
Posts 2588
Karma 2586
Acceptance 465
Reading Access 60
Registered 27-9-2007
Location other side of the planet
Status Offline
Post at 18-4-2013 20:40  Profile P.M. 
Font size: S M L


QUOTE:
Originally posted by WaterbottleS at 17-4-2013 09:09 PM
Can anyone explain how the housing market works in Hong Kong? I understand Apartments there are insanely expensive, someone even told me it was into the millions(USD) for a small sized place (500 sq feet)? I don't understand how anyone can afford to live in Hong Kong, even by North American standards that's absurd!! Factor in food, daily expenses, clothing into the equation and it's just ludicrous.

I am sure some will chime in with deeper insight.   Everything is relative.  It depends where do you come from to compare?

Compared from where I am, HK real estate is expensive. I think living expensive is not too bad at all ....food is afforable.  Public transportation is great & cheap too.  Clothes shopping is tougher in HK.

I asked a similiar question once in another thread and even asked a few friends for advice. Lets just say if you banked 1 mil hkd a year... you would be pretty comfortable overall there.  Personally I have issues with the humidity, pollution and brutal hours nature of work there.
Top
sexpert
Erotic Emperor
Rank: 6Rank: 6


UID 6099
Digest Posts 0
Credits 2144
Posts 1895
Karma 2117
Acceptance 546
Reading Access 60
Registered 20-12-2007
Location NYC and Mong Kok
Status Offline
Post at 18-4-2013 22:59  Profile P.M. 
Font size: S M L
I have a friend who works in one of the bigger banks in America, he transferred over to Japan "to try" and he made a few extra bucks.  He was sick of it and then tried HK, he fell in love for he is a Cantonese ABC, speaks the language and (in his words) "finally found his place"  Tripled his salary within 4 years, started making contacts in China, 10Xs his salary now.  Bought a flat for roughly 30 million HKD in one of the nicer areas and married a local girl.  Fate has been nice to him.  But he's a rarity.  I have a few more friends who travel to HK for work.  3 months a year, some for 1 week, and I also know a white guy who has a 3 year contract to work in HK via a US company paying him US rates and healthcare but he can't see his Chinese wife here in NY for months at a time.  

IMHO, good jobs are few, opportunities are even less but dreams of living there are tremendous! LOL, including me.

Recent Ratings
hehe_knight   19-4-2013 14:40  Acceptance  +1   I agree that mainland China is where the potential career jackpots are...or you can marry a rich second generation.
Top
adrenal
Throbbing Titan
Rank: 7Rank: 7Rank: 7



UID 62146
Digest Posts 0
Credits 4075
Posts 610
Karma 4040
Acceptance 702
Reading Access 70
Registered 13-3-2011
Status Offline
Post at 21-4-2013 23:57  Profile P.M. 
Font size: S M L
why is his salary 10x now?  Did he switch and move to a mainland bank? We are talking salary right? not contract or independent work on the side
Top
sexpert
Erotic Emperor
Rank: 6Rank: 6


UID 6099
Digest Posts 0
Credits 2144
Posts 1895
Karma 2117
Acceptance 546
Reading Access 60
Registered 20-12-2007
Location NYC and Mong Kok
Status Offline
Post at 22-4-2013 00:44  Profile P.M. 
Font size: S M L
Reply #16 adrenal's post

I didn't want to get into details but he works at a bank but he isn't a teller, LOL.  But contracts made my them usually means heavy commissions.  He sets up contracts between different countries and businesses.  His money is made through heavy commissions and he doesn't have contracts set in stone to work for a particular bank anymore.  Mind you he is Ivy League material.  Not just any kid who graduated grad school.
Top
teltel
Carnal Conqueror
Rank: 3Rank: 3



UID 22306
Digest Posts 0
Credits 295
Posts 215
Karma 276
Acceptance 376
Reading Access 30
Registered 22-3-2009
Status Offline
Post at 22-4-2013 19:08  Profile P.M. 
Font size: S M L
Perhaps look at some of the international employment agencies that include china in their ambit.

I have had a few approaches from Hays who work out of HK.

There are a few others.

Teltel
Top
teltel
Carnal Conqueror
Rank: 3Rank: 3



UID 22306
Digest Posts 0
Credits 295
Posts 215
Karma 276
Acceptance 376
Reading Access 30
Registered 22-3-2009
Status Offline
Post at 23-4-2013 16:26  Profile P.M. 
Font size: S M L
try   http://www.seek.com.au/job/24391486?tracking=JMC-000038

may be what you are looking for

teltel
Top
ramont
Fucking Legend
Rank: 10Rank: 10Rank: 10


UID 26912
Digest Posts 0
Credits 14332
Posts 2264
Karma 14173
Acceptance 3189
Reading Access 100
Registered 27-6-2009
Location HK
Status Offline
Post at 23-4-2013 16:48  Profile P.M. 
Font size: S M L


QUOTE:
Originally posted by WaterbottleS at 18-4-2013 10:09 AM
you bring up the idea expats, now do those guys work the same hours as locals? Are they paid HKD or of their country of origin? At this point I think my friend is done with the idea of making a life i ...

Expats have a reputation as not working as long hours as locals, but for many the hours are still quite long.

Back to the original questions, D'Art gave good responses, but I wanted to add one more point, which is language. If your friend speaks the local Asian language this is a huge help. If not, they will hire local (cheaper).

Regarding housing, yes it is fucking insane. I have friends that are paying almost $2000 USD for a flat that is under 600 sq/ft on the Kowloon side.

Transportation is very efficient and since you probably won't have a car, you save on car payments & insurance which can be quite high in the US.

People told me other things were cheaper in HK, but I think most of those days are gone. McDonalds is cheaper here and if you eat very local, it is pretty cheap, but otherwise I find food as expensive or more than the US, especially if you want to buy imported groceries.

Clothes can be a challenge depending on your size.

Of course, there are other options like Thailand or Taiwan. Neither will pay as good as HK probably, but the cost of living can be significantly lower.
Top
 


All times are GMT+8, the time now is 30-11-2024 10:22

Powered by Discuz! 5.0.0 © 2001-2006 Comsenz Inc.
Processed in 0.036188 second(s), 9 queries , Gzip enabled

Clear Cookies - Contact Us - 141Love
Disclaimer: This forum is operated as a real-time bulletin board system. 141CLUB.COM carries no legal liability on its contents. All messages are solely composed and up-loaded by readers and their opinions do not represent our stand. Readers are reminded that the contents on this forum may not convey reliable information thus it is readers' own responsibility to judge the validity, completeness and truthfulness of the messages. For messages related to medical, legal or investment issues, readers should always seek advice from professionals. Due to the limitation of the forum's real-time up-loading nature, 141CLUB.com is not able to monitor all the messages posted. Should readers find any problems regarding the messages, do contact us. 141CLUB.COM reserves the rights to delete or preserve any messages and reject anyone from joining this forum. 141CLUB.COM reserves all the legal rights.