Just who is this  "Razaq Nadeem"  ???

I think we're gonna learn all about this guy during the trial. One strange thing I read is that, despite being in HK since
he was 3, he says he can't speak Cantonese. Is that possible? I have a Indian friend, born here, I think, and he can't
read or write Chinese. But everybody says his spoken Cantonese is like a local Chinese.

Considering his moronic behaviour, I'm not surprised if he can't speak Cantonese properly, but wasn't he questioned by
the police in the local lingo? I think it's a trick taught to him by his lawyer.

Just a major loser!

Young children don't need to be taught to speak a foreign language, they absorb it from the world around them. If this guy has been in HK since the age of 3 and can't communicate in Cantonese, that means he was never exposed to the language as a child.

Which raises the question of just how South Asian children (Indians, Pakistanis, etc.) are educated in HK. Do they attend their own schools, and if so, isn't Cantonese taught in those schools? Being raised in a country and never learning the local language says a great deal about attitudes towards the local culture.

marsupial:

...well obviously you forget or you just don't know too much about local history...

...hk was a former british colony, for 156 years that ended in 1997...

...there was always a 'caste' system type hierarchy as defined by the brits, in the order of:  1) whites, 2) chinese, 3) everyone else...

...but with south asians, they were brought in by the brits as civil administrators due to their language skills and having spent even longer than hk chinese under british rule, being groomed under the british system...

...they knew and understood how the the system was governed and what the white colonial masters wanted...

...hence it was never a 'necessity' for whities (and to a certain extent browns - although many indians and pakistanis speak excellent cantonese) to learn the local tongue, as the system was constructed using english and translated into chinese...

...so went the attitude that most people in those groups felt they didn't need to waste their time or put the effort in to learn chinese, as the system made the chinese conform to what whites constructed...

...those who were smart, learnt the native tongue...and if not, its fine!...

...aaahhh, those were the days...

...but as we know all things come to past  (AND THANK GOD FOR THAT)...

...hk is now chinese territory, still with a great set of laws and a system based on the wonderful british blueprint...

...essentially everything is as it was but now chinese, particularly mandarin, is the dialect that will become more prominent as time passes, of course never taking away the english language as it is the international dialect...

...however, it is even more crucial and evident that people learn chinese now- especially if you are smart (as i am sure you all see that happening all over the world)...

...at this point for those who go around speaking english only, they are the disadvantaged...

...no longer can non chinese (especially white people) walk around with the same kind of 'intimidating' attitude/arrogance of superiority in speaking english only...

...there is nothing for anyone to be arrogant about...

...aaahhh...there is indeed some good in the new world order...

The thing is though as said minorities often stick to their own

In the UK Indians stick with indians , jews with the Jews , Chinese with the Chinese and it Ghettoises the communities.

Their children however much like myself absorb it quickly, that said my sister did spent 0-6 in HK and speaks excellent cantonese but was thought to be retarted by the narrow minded english teachers in the UK though.

I dun care who is this guy........just put him jail for the rest of his life.......by the way, anybody knows how many yrs he is going to do???

I dun care who is this guy........just put him jail for the rest of his life.......by the way, anybody knows how many yrs he is going to do???

I am familiar enough with HK's history. But you miss my point. Children don't need to be taught a language, they absorb it naturally. In order for a child not to learn to understand/speak a local language, he must be actively prevented from learning it. That is, he must be isolated from the language. I was just curious how this could be the case for a small minority living among the Chinese. (As you yourself point out, many of the South Asians here speak excellent Cantonese.)

Learning to read is obviously a different subject altogether and illiteracy is a problem everywhere. Many recent immigrants to the States make the huge mistake of not speaking their own language at home for fear that their kids will be at a linguistic disadvantage in school. A needless concern, and the only result is that the kid never learns his parent's language!

I asked the above question because I wanted to know something about the educational system set up here in HK for South Asians. In particular, how and what languages they are taught. Do they have there own separate school system? Americans stationed for years in foreign countries usually send their children to American schools and the kids never learn the local languages. But probably most South Asians here in HK are too poor for that kind of self-financed education. So I would be surprised if the HK government doesn't provide some kind of economic support for the education of South Asian children. Is this the case? And if so, does the HK government not set standards that these schools have to meet. I'm sure the Brits had some kind of colonial arrangement for the education of non-Chinese - has the present administration simply continued with what was inherited from the Brits?

I don't know if your comments on arrogant whites was directed at me - but I speak/read 3 foreign languages quite well thank you. I came out to Asia to learn Mandarin and Japanese, then lived in Italy for 4 yrs to learn Italian. Not all Americans are cultural snobs.

[ Last edited by  Marsupial at 23-3-2008 12:26 ]

There are valid points in what everyone is saying  

Mars - I'll answer your questions on the local education system when I wake up
and make sure I'm not going to talk shit  

Hunter - this thread is about this bastard who should be castrated ...
his actions may have wider implications on our way of mongering then we anticipate !

Interestingly, it looks like this whole sordid incident is going to bring about an entire re-examination of the legal status of prostitution in HK, with the aim of better protecting the girls and bringing them from the fringes into mainstream society.

marsupial:

...thx for elaborating further...

...just so the air is clear...no, my comment on the arrogant caucasian people is not directed at you per se (in fact i do remember your history/travails in the east plus the recent post somewhere of your adventures in italy...i believe regarding currency exchange rates)...

...and no i don't think all americans are arrogant...it is unfortunate that there are those who do end up here or in other places as expats that end up viewing themselves as superior (not solely americans i might add) because they are on higher salaries than locals and moreover, they are usually being paid more than what they'd usually get in their home base (sadly these folks would be nobodies as they are not upto the many standards of criteria, if they were lving/working in their home base)...

...and then there are of course those who are of chinese descent that come here, much as the white expats described above, who have a superiority complex, thinking that they hold a western passport, speaking good english and do not speak chinese (or close to none) that go around treating locals like second class citizens within their own country/territory...

...back to your queries regarding south asians...

...from my understanding, south asians in hk end up in either 1 of three different schooling systems here in hk...

...1) specific schools for south asians where there is urdu and hindi being taught in the curriculum...

...2) local schools (although the percentage of students in chinese schools that are of south asian descent is an extremely small minority)...

...3) international schools (which are often viewed as for the 'elite'...in this case for those who fit a certain income bracket)...

...unfortunately, the hk govt. does not have in place a more robust system for non-chinese, which is a remnant of the days of the brit admin...

...and it seems that there is no plan for that in terms of a govt funded system...

...those systems i refer to above are usually private...

Hope they change the laws, so 2 girls can work out of 1 flat. Ummm.....

If found guilty, I hope they put him away for a long, long time.

I always thought HK had hanging? anyway I think that 141 in the style of TST James S Lee Mansions or Tai Po's Baby/Coco/Bobo is how it should be done in that they can hear each other and bang on the walls to communicate with each other.

I had a thought that all the ones this git murdered were solo operators which seems dangerous as there is no backup. Infact thinking about it many 141s get into the shower with you AFTER but not before probably as they can judge you first.