I think what you're describing is true of just about every Chinese family in Hong Kong and it's something most
families can rightly be very proud of. But at the end of the day, as you lie on your deathbed, it's the way you
lived your life that's important - not how much money you made or how many houses you own. There are
some things more important than just climbing the ladder ..... it's how you climb the ladder.

she is back @ TinHau..

same name as zoey... hot and well educated... speak good english..

highly popular and busy... really need make an appointment with her

Well let me ask you .... What is it about the desire to accumulate wealth as quickly as possible that you find so admirable?

This is off-topic but your sentence just jumped right out at me as it's something I've experienced but never
been able to talk about before. I've known my wife 18 years and been married 15 but I know for a fact that
her sisters, brothers and parents will ALWAYS come before me. Just something I've learned to accept.

I mean, I can understand our children coming first - but the rest ......?

Well I hope this gal is successful. But she may discover, as many others have, that money won't nescessarily buy her happiness.
And, if that happens, I hope she won't regret having to shag around 3,000 guys to get there. Usually, it's not where you end
up that's important - it's how you get there. What's the old saying  ..... life isn't a destination, it's a journey.

Why do you find this odd? Why do you think these girls are so special that you think their time is 2 to 4 times more valuable than your time?

Or to put it another way, why do you think so little of yourself?

Easy for you to say. But look the choice isn't between either being decent poor folk or doing something horrible. You only think being poor is better than being a WG because of your disdain for prostitution.


That's true. Working 12 hrs/day, 6 days/wk, for subsistence wages is some sweatshop is always an option. You could stave off hunger for decades that way. Sounds like fun. Give it a try and let me know.


Well said and very true.


Another perfect example of your loaded rhetoric. Selling your body is somehow similar to selling your soul to the devil? "Oh no no! Those two phrases just happened to be next to each other. Even tho they occur as steps in an argument they are not related to each other in any way. My goodness me, how could you possibly think I meant to imply such a thing. Why I don't even know what rhetoric means."


And who you chose to scorn and why tells us all something about your character

Because the 45 mins I spend with them is a hell of a lot more interesting than the vast majority of common 3- hr periods I spend working - but if your job is as good as sex, I envy you bro.

But in any case, I don't think little of myself, but neither do I think little of them. Why do you think so little of them?

But it's just as possible that she will discover that the money will allow her to fulfill her dreams. Who can know? Not me that's for sure, so I leave the idle speculation to others.

Working your life away in some factory isn't a journey and doesn't lead anywhere.

And the math gives <1500 guys.

Economic common sense. Money is a tool that enables you to accomplish more significant goals. Certainly seems more sensible than acquiring wealth at the slowest possible rate. Do you think people work minimum wage jobs for the joy of it and that the pitiful wages are somehow compensated for by the rewards of the work?

Jake, what is the point of all this? Since neither of us has any illusion of being able to convince the other to change his mind.

I wonder if it has to do with the position of the daughter. The girls that I've date who are the oldest or only child in the family are the ones that tend to put parents first because they feel obligated in being their care takers. I've dated a few that were the youngest, and they don't really seem to be much involved in family affairs at all, punting the obligations to older siblings.

Oh really? Every chinese family lives confortably ? That's news to me ...

I agree money isn't everything. How many rich/powerful/popular families deal with deep internal problems ? More than we think ...

I think some social economy 101 is in order...

poverty -> envy/insatisfaction/feeling powerless -> social unrest -> protestations -> manifestations -> police repression -> random criminal acts -> more repression -> revolt -> violence -> state harsh repression -> insurrection -> revolution/war

In which state do you think our "civilized" countries are, according to this (incomplete and very abstract) chain ? That's the price to pay for VERY unequal distribution of riches. The middle class is rapidly disapearing, poors get poorer and richs get richer. So cliché and so true. I guess you know that 20% own 80% ... That was true 100 years ago when Pareto found about that, and it is still true, if not worse.

It is well known that making your first million is the hardest part. Why is that? Because the economic/political "system" is not there to promote equality, quite the contrary. And "we" enforce this perpetual cycle with our buying power, promoting slave work and absence of ethics.

Sorry for change of topic (not that we are going anywhere anyway), but I got tired of hearing "work your ass off" as a "noble" solution for poverty. Duh. Do you think poors don't do it already ? Much more than you, bro. Are we hearing success stories everyday? Even modest stories about a store clerk being able to afford a rent, let alone a house? Not quite. Seriously, time for you to get down and dirty with the real thing and see for yourself the reality and how inescapable it is for more and more people.

[ Last edited by  cherry_picker at 18-2-2008 10:01 ]

The poor, always struggling for the next meal, always want to have a more comfortable life, without knowing what's in for them when they are rich; 'cos they have never experience a life of being rich;

and the rich, never understanding that sharing can help someone poor to have a better quality of life; and only fighting among themselves

sigh; if only everyone learn to be content with what they have

ironic, vey ironic when I added this; 人心不足，蛇吞象 to my avatar

I was assuming she saves half of what she earns. She still has to live and that's a high rate of saving for anyone.

I agree with a lot of what you say bro, but there's always gonna be rich and there's always gonna be poor. The best you can
hope for is a stable political, legal and social system that gives everyone an opportunity to improve their economic situation.
That's what Britain provided in Hong Kong and the results over 2 generations have been spectacular. The Chinese didn't
provide the same for their own people, which is why they're still in deep shit. The same goes for a lot of other Asian countries
and whether they'll be able to get out in the next generation remains to be seen.


Well, it worked for my grandparents and parents bro and I'm guessing it worked for yours too and probably for a lot of others
on this forum - including [or especially?] the Americans. So why ridicule it? And what else do you suggest? Please tell me. Of
course, some will always go for the quick and easy way - such as WGs. But ya know what they say - you reap what you sow.
So what will WGs reap?

[ Last edited by  Jake at 18-2-2008 22:36 ]

Why ridicule it ? Please read the end of my last post ... I was very serious when I wrote it, not ironic at all. While my personal childhood situation was not easy, it was nothing compared to what 80% of the world experience ... (yeah, I made up that statistic, but it should be close enough).

You talk about Britain ... look at your own country. Are you proud ? USA, the place where everything is possible ? Dream on... 12.3% were below poverty threshold in 2006, meaning around 36M people. Does not sound so bad ? Ah, but look how we define poverty threshold : annual salary of 10,400$ for one person and 35,600$ for 8 people. Are you kidding me ?! Wanna try to survive with 10,400$ a year in USA ? That would make a good reality show Again, how many of those people are not working their ass off in hope of getting out of their shit hole? How many succeed? Please, stop thinking poors have a chance if they work hard, that chance is too thin to be statistically meaningful. Knowing the facts help a lot in defining a problem and its solution(s).

Solutions to that? A very basic one is to try to use your *buying power* with discernment and support politicians who have a good social agenda. Many many things have change because people changed their buying habits. Money talks very loud.

Hey, here is a concrete example: if you have a maid in HK, treat her well (not like a dog as I have seen many times) and pay her like you think she deserves, not the ridiculous official rate. I have heard a lawyer making 500 US$ an hour tell me that 3600 HKD/month is plenty enough and he is generously helping them and their family abroad. Sure, better than nothing, but jeez, what a self-deceiving moron.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_the_United_States

Hey, it passes the time bro - and what else are you gonna do at 5.56 in the morning?

I always thought that there was a really good mechanism setup in the US to keep the poor from thinking about being poor. For one thing, we have television and other entertainment that keep people happy. I've personally been told many times that you can actually have happier times when you're "poor" especially when you don't even know you're poor. We also love emphasizing other people's problems, making our own seem minuscule by comparison. And 90% of the people I know who are poor in the US (makes about $10k-$15k / year, lives at home with rest of family, etc) are still focused on making just enough money to buy the things that are just currently out of reach to make themselves happy. Then they repeat the process. It's never about trying to get out of the situation they're in.