Ok...this is what I see so far.....do not bash me if I;m wrong.

We definitely have 2 groups based on the replies:

Yes God!
= Dork LArk, Siklong, Tonto.

No God!
= Jake, Wackojacko, Lenny

That;s 3 to 3.

Marsupial? Can;t see where you stand...believer or non believer.


As for me........I want to believe!!!! But God is still in my X-Files.....unresolved phenomena.

That count is not fair hunter.  You have counted dork lard!  its 3 - 2 in favour of no god!

I think Dork Lard...is 3rd category.....Cult!!!!!!

There is no God and I am his prophet.

Bro, something wrong with your sentence, if there is no God then how can you be "HIS" prophet? who is "HIS" then?

I didn't say I don't believe in God. I do, but I don't think He created life as it is today. Science has proved that life evolved.

you are 4th category then, believer of God and Evolution........

But u are the first guy I know who believe in both.......usually either one....

I am a devout believer in the God who is not there. Gods come in many forms, all longed for, all believed in with absolute conviction by the devout. But these gods are never present to the rational mind, and must be accepted on faith alone. How is my Absent God any different?

[ Last edited by  Marsupial at 30-7-2008 15:36 ]

I also never said I don't believe in God. Virtually all Christians believe in Darwin's theory of evolution.
It's only a few crazy fundamentaists, mostly Americans, who believe in Creationism.

Evidence has nothing to do with religious belief. Nor are doubters and believers distinguished by degree of intelligence.

There are highly intelligent people who are convinced of the existence of god, just as there are equally intelligent people who are just as certain that god does not exist. Obviously, intelligence is not the deciding factor. Non-believers base their ideas on an unprejudiced examination of the world around them and are unwilling to go beyond what is knowable via the scientific method; while the religious are driven to interpret facts in the light of their faith, some inner voice or need, the acceptance of historical documents and traditions, or the inability to comprehend a world without god. Clearly the deciding factor as to what one believes is not reason but personality.

Therefore, why we believe what we do is at the very heart of the disagreement between theists and atheists. The religious realize quite well that there can be no logical proof of god's existence - but they don't need proof; and knowing that god's existence is not subject to logical refutation, they deal with skeptics by demanding the impossible: proof that god does not exist. In this they can rest easy; science and reason long ago reduced god to an amorphous and insubstantial thing defined in such a way that his existence can never be logically negated. Therefore, if the atheist wishes to engage the believer in direct argument, his only choice is to attempt to show that god is wholly improbable. But however improbable, the true believer will never abandon his god because his faith is too important to him emotionally.

The believer manages to construct an entire world-view from the junk that exists in that logical black hole that contains all the improbabilities that can't be disproved.

Therefore, the two sides of this argument will never agree, or even begin to understand each other, because they speak two entirely different languages.

[ Last edited by  Marsupial at 3-8-2008 11:31 ]

This discussion isn't about whether there is a god or not. Of course, no one can PROVE it one way or the other.
You just choose what you want to believe. Fair enough; I have no problem with believers or non-believers. But
the subject of evolution is different. Evolution CAN be proved and creationism CAN be disproved. That's why I say
that creationists have a mental problem. You can't continue to believe in something which has been scientifically
proved to be not true. It's like believing the Earth is flat or that the Sun rotates about the Earth, as Christians
used to believe.

Religion itself is a mental problem in that everything the religious believe is improbable to the point of absurdity. Just choosing to believe in something and to hell with the facts would be considered mental illness if it concerned any other human activity besides religion.

[ Last edited by  Marsupial at 30-7-2008 00:43 ]

Spoken like a true prophet of the absent god.

I agree it's all down to personality - different people need different things to help them make sense of their lives and to get on with it. What I cannot cope with is when people try to push their believes onto others, or worse still try to indoctrinate those who are less secure or weak, such as children. Prophets are an ultimate example of such pushy people (including you, Mars!)...

The Absent God demands much of his disciples.

Ok.....sounds fair and reasonable arguments


PErsonally, for a believer of God existence.....the fundamental factor is FAITH........and for believer of Evolution .....scientific evidence.


This again come back to the basic question:

Which come first? The EGG or the CHICKEN?

[ Last edited by  hunter at 29-7-2008 11:37 ]

Actually it has been proven scientificly that CHICKEN comes first. I saw that in some documentary about egg and chicken.

So are u saying u are a believer of Spritual being(s)?


EGG
However science and evolution also prove that Egg comes first....may not from a chicken itself but from another species (animal similar to Chicken)...modified by birth and mutation.
If such evidence bears weight, then one shall believe egg came before the chicken.

CHICKEN
Now back to Almighty Creator of Universe.......
Both Christian and Islam believes that God created everything in two pairs, so the chicken came first.
Acccording to the bible in the book of Genesis Chapter 1 (I still remember what I learned from high school), creatures were created by God to multiply on earth, but makes no direct quote of eggs.

From the bible. O(no offence to christian believer if I quote this wriongly)
"Let the waters swarm with swarms of living creatures, and let fowl fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven. And God created the great sea-monsters, and every living creature that creepeth, wherewith the waters swarmed, after its kind, and every winged fowl after its kind; and God saw that it was good. And God blessed them, saying: 'Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth."

[ Last edited by  hunter at 29-7-2008 11:57 ]

No it doesnt mean I am believer of spiritual being.

I am just saying that there was some documentary about it that I saw a while back.  Researcher (s) found somekind of evidence that show chicken has to come first before the egg, they argued that somehow an animal evolved into chicken like animal due to environment factors which then gave birth to the first chicken egg.

It might seem impossible now but we all know that the earth condition at that time was different to nowdays which somehow could contributed to the evolution of chicken.

Let;s lay low for few hours before........and hope we get some more debate on the chicken & egg theory......

Of course the chicken came first. It's fuckin obvious. The egg could only come from the chicken while the chicken
evolved from another species until it laid an egg.