Generally it is human nature for people of the same ethnic group to favor each other above the other groups. The only reason I can think for your local outlet to give you crap service is because you have some bad 'history' with them.

Or maybe on that off chance your local outlet was actually treating you with 'respect'. Did you check that 'char siu fan' that the foreigner (hate that word when used to apply to a non-asian in a non-asian country) received did not consist of the bad/rough chunks of 'char siu' or that the table given to the foreigner was the one that was closest to the smelly bathrooms/kitchen, things that you personally do not desire?

One thing the Chinese hate the most is someone of their ethnic group favoring others without any fair justification. For example it is ok for a Chinese girl to date/marry a non-Chinese if she sincerely likes him as a person not because he is non-Chinese. But it is entirely another thing if that Chinese girl dated/married a non-Chinese because she felt dating/marrying Chinese guy is below her.

So please change your attitude before it gets you in trouble with the locals.

SEAJ

I can kind of relate to his experiences related to restaurants. It happens to me quite frequently in Canada which bothers the heck out of me. The waitress will smile and be interested in the caucasian patron next to me, and turn around with a complete different attitude towards me. Of course it does not happen everytime, but is still a reoccurring theme over the years.

And to add onto Asians preferring "gwai lo" -- it isn't uncommon. For the best example, take a look at ladies market in MK! Extreme example of course, but it does happen.

It's really just stereotypes that exist in some minds. Iunderstand the waittress - Chinese people generally tip less than Caucasians. Does it mean she should serve us poorly? Definitely not. But to some people who are (don't want to use this so lightly) "prejudice", that's just the way they think.

I agree it was slightly hard to read the sattire. But it does make sense after knowing. I am also Chinese, but in no way felt like he was putting us down. It is the truth in some cases.

It's honestly an observation. Whether one states theirobservation on this matter doesn't change the fact that it does exist. If you cannot handle this, I think youare much too sensitive about this matter.

Hope you understand!

this happens here in the states too.  If it goes too far, I gone to extreme low tipping.  I have yet to find a way to deal with this in a manner to impact people in service industry in a way to send a message to them how unacceptable this is.

doghead also made a good point. She may be just tricking the gwai lo in buying bad chunks of charsiu!

The problem is if you tip less it becomes a vicious cycle. It's really troublesome cause you'd "prove" him/her right! half the time I tip 15%+ to try to teach them. But  logically, that encourages poor behavior.

Gents - I really don't know what happened to you guys for I have yet to ever receive such treatment ANYWHERE just because I am Asian.  I have lived for years at a stretch in both Canada as well as the States and I have NOT encountered such bias. In fact, I have mostly experienced the complete opposite where my being Chinese gets me more.

Maybe I have been lucky for indeed, my Chinese ethnicity has, I believe, instead been an advantage - and definitely so in Asian places when I have been able to get a table when I see Westerners wating for theirs, when I would be offered "specialties" etc not available on the menu (say "meats" that are "verbotten" in that country or items they have few of etc) and a generally much more genial and jovial welcome by the staff etc.

As far as Mongkok Night market is concerned - come on!! Surely you realize that the reason why these traders there are more inclined to go all out with Westerners is that they are most likely tourists - and thus an easier target for over-pricing than us locals?  There's no tipping there - just plain ole bargaining - and the Western tourist is a much easier mark.

Oh Crap - I forgot - I am actually a blonde haired, blue eyed 6'2" Swede!!

SEAJ

Edit in italics:
DISCLAIMER -  I am ONLY talking about prejudice based upon your race/ethnicity and NOT about anybody as a person. Perhaps you guys who think you are being prejudiced against BASED UPON RACE is actually being discriminated against for other reasons?

[ Last edited by  SEAJ at 26-7-2011 01:41 ]

Yes I thought it was implied that it's easy to rip off the foreigner. Isn't that what you were saying?

I hope you realize you just harshly contradicted yourself. You claim to be against racial prejudice and said it's wrong. Then you said you're treated better cause you're Asian. And by the tone of it, you think it's OK cause you're on the good side of it?

Please -- 3 people recognizing the same problem andknowing many others experiencing the same thing probably means it is true to an extent. Unless you thinkwe all have some sort of same problem that specifically occurs in restaurants to us! That was sarcasm incase you didn't understand.

I'd like to think that I get treated better not only because of the same ethnicity, but more so because I AM SEAJ the person.

The point is that IMHO it doesn't matter what race you are - what matter is what you are as a person.

Yes, you're probably correct stating that I don't say anything when I do get treated better just because of race - but its not my place to stand up for anybody else.  If a Westerner feels that he's being prjudiced against, do you really think that most of them will just meekly take it?  I don't think so!

So its up to YOU to stand up for your own rights if you feel aggrieved racially - NO?  And if you have been in the habit of not doing anything when it does happen - well... I feel sorry for you.

And as for your own "problems" in  restaurants - well, that is only for YOU to figure out - and I'd suggest that it is truly presumptious for you to speak for the others.

SEAJ

[ Last edited by  SEAJ at 26-7-2011 01:55 ]

Of course you're right on saying "IMHO it doesn't matter what race you are ..."

I think that way too! All I wanted to say was not everyone thinks that way, and it is a fact.

Just forget about the restaurant ramblings. It was just an example. FWIW though, ofc I have confronted and complained. It's not worth the trouble. Also might add these are casual dining places. Nicer places obviously have more educated servers.

Sorry - but I just cannot agree that "..It's not worth the trouble.."

What - you can really accept the fact (as you see it) that you got treated badly because of your race - and actually NOT do anything about it?  No matter where when and who by?

OK.

Thanks
SEAJ

One last reply:

The ladies market example is actually spot on.

Think about these two events logically: they provide better service - overprice foreigners with smiles to gain a higher percentage chance of a sale - and - serve Caucasians at a restaurant better knowing to gain a higher percentage chance of a larger tip. Logically, they are both after the easy target. Morals aside, it is a very simple equation/situation. If it helps you to think more logically, think of Asians as just a group "A" and Caucasians/foreigners as group "B". It is hard for the mind to think so without any stereotypes. If you are thinking this example makes no sense, you are being ignorant, or simply not thinking logically.

I probably didn't express myself clearly and came off sounding snobby. I just wanted to prove my point. The concept is a little confusing but reading a little on logistics would explain what I mean.

Logistics is the all encompassing word to describe transportation and the movement of goods - nothing to do with logic.  Do you mean Logic?

And the ladies market is nothing to do with race - they see ANY suspected tourist - white black yellow or even green - and they're on them!

Me ignorant?  
Err..OK!

And you sounding snobby - not at all, NOT AT ALL bro - au contraire!
SEAJ

[ Last edited by  SEAJ at 26-7-2011 02:43 ]

that is a dilemma isn't now?  I tip if its bad service. period.  I just have good suspicions (well too obvious), its racially motivated. Sometimes is reverse racism.  only way to guarantee they know is confronting the person.  Say nothing & tip well, are you encouraging it?  Don't tip well & prove them right?   well, i digress when it comes to this.

Racial profiling is everywhere.  Its just normal.  When I am in HK or mainland china, when I tell them I am american...those dang dollar signs pop up!!  I get the hard sell like I am a walking ATM!  If I said I was from a less developed country...say Vietnam (random pick), I get less of a hard push. Trying not to insult anyone here, I am sure profiling exists! I have seen demeanors change INSTANTLY in HK when inquiring minds ask me where I am from.

i think i better dish out some duly apologies...
first and foremost; blakerighter, my apologies if it seems i have hi-jacked your thread (great topic btw)
secondly to all bros who were greatly offended by my comments/observations
i was not my intention to hit such nerves on now obviously sensitive subject

a few things to address:
@ sirtiger - my biased experiences all occurred in AUS... and its not customary to tip here by set %'s... at least not in asian restaurants, simply tip at the counter what you feel like
i strongly appose to the customary tipping service, i show appreciation by repeat business and respect to the wait staff... they seems to acknowledge that

@ SEAJ - i take, like all things in life, everything with a pinch of salt... nothing too serious and accept individuals for who they are.
doesn't mean i'm deeply offended nor racially motivated to retaliate, life's too short to be bothered with such relics
it is now obvious that you do not share the same views threading lightly on the subject, and of course there is absolutely nothing wrong with that
my humble apologies, clearly this has hit a nerve, regrettably, this was my personal pov and merely expressing (again) personal thoughts in the forum

@ doghead - i don't think there were bad patronage history with this particular food outlet... if anything, i've stayed loyal as i followed them as they relocated outside the city and into the suburbs and skyrocketing prices. this restaurant is one of a few places to get authentic, yummy char sui fan... not the frozen then microwaved ones... so they would of served awesome kick ass char sui fan if ordered... and the toilets are located at the end of the building almost outside... so no chance of bad table

@ jykk141 - thanks for your support... seems like a common occurrence in developed countries only... glad i'm not alone sharing the same view

overall, its been an humbling experience to know where one stands
lessons learn and moving on, SEAJ, next time i'm in town, will certainly be buying you a beer

blakerighter,

To answer your question, i have been on the prowl both bymyself and with a group.
I don't mind either, the only problem i see with mongering along. Is it can get a little boring, especially if you dont see anything you like.
The most fun was definately going as a group to a soapie.

yea going alone sucks
i usually go with 1 person, so i can at least talk to some1
but going with a large group, i doubt every1 will be able to make a selection .....

Coming back on topic, has anyone ever figured out how to do Karaoke solo, without being stuck such a large bill at the end of the night? Which KTV's in CP have a main lounge area where you don't have to pay the room fee and can just sit and chill with a girl. I'm not that in to singing anyways.

i monger solo 90% of the time. i do monger with a couple of buddies sometime, but that is too rare. besides, its hard picking a place when you have to get approval from each friend first.

mayflower definately has it
there is a charge per person to sit at the stage/lounge
i also think there is a charge to go to flower street
i think eurasia also, not 100% sure ............

So it would be a minimum spend charge, similar to the rooms? Any idea on what that minimum spend is?