suppliers I've known for 10 or more years, sure. We both have "dirt" on each other LOL. Someone I just met or didn't know well, I would be somewhat cautious. You have to keep in mind, there is nothing odd about this in China. It's common place. You can't do business with someone you aren't "friends" with. KTV, drinks, dinner etc, it's part of the relationship building process. When in Rome...

I'm not in China, but when we are going to go and hang out to a KTV or something, I'd say that we're just hanging out at the club to chill out with the guys. Since my SO does not go to clubs, she wouldn't insist on coming along.

I have to smile at this chain...  As a result of my painful divorce -- which occurred because my ex-wife found out that I had visited WGs -- I am now quite open with my GFs about the fact that I enjoy women's company on a short-term basis.  The reactions are actually quite interesting...  My last GF said, "Why can't you just lie like other men?"  

Now, having said that, I am still single and looking...  

Have fun, CGP

P.S.  I dropped my last GF because she showed dangerous signs of jealousy.  She still wants to continue the relationship.  She is 29, attractive, and has a good corporate job.  I am 58.  I love Thailand!

the suppliers will always take you out. and if you dont take it as a good faith, they will take it as a diss. so just go along with it and let them pay for everything, do not fight over the bill to make yourself look good.
remember, you are in their country, let them do their thing.

I suppose this is one rule I simply dont break - never have.  I DON'T mix my business with my illicit pleasures.  Ever.  That kind of info is simply not supportive in a professional career.  If your goal is ending up as a sennior VP, a president, or CEO one day you simply dont want your dark side openly known in your work place.

I agree that China and much of asia is different and more relaxed towards this (and thank god it is.., I love it here).  But I work for a western company and it is not accepted to behave in any illegal manner if you expect to get promoted to senior positions.  Especially if you have signing authority.  You become a potential lliability, embarrassment, and blackmail-target to the company.  Your "ceiling" gets lower and lower the more your activities are known.

Besides --- If they are suppliers who cares if they feel "dissed"?  Their job is to win my business - not the other way around.  Clients can be trickier as relationships are indeed very important, but my unwillingness to join them at a KTV has never lost me a deal.

All that said, I understand the nature of business in China well.  Games must be played.  So I work thru local distributors - close partners.  I give them a larger-then-normal discount.  How they share this extra discount between various "interested parties" is up to them.  Just close the deal, mate, and tell me nothing else about it.   When I fly in to see clients they'll join me and bring me around to the clients.  After dinner, whether THEY take the client to the KTV is up to them:  "Dont ask, dont tell".  My nose stays squeaky-clean, I can sign my quarterly SEC filing that I am not aware of any fraud or corruption without concern about perjury.  For indeed I am NOT AWARE of any.

I guess I wont generalize, but in MY company no one would get promoted to senior managment if his punting activities was known.

Yeah, those are all good points.

For those with more responsibility in their jobs there are two things to specifically consider:

1. The foreign corrupt businesses act is pretty strictly enforced in the U.S.  It used to be outright bribes were considered a violation, but now buying hookers is considered a no-no too Whazzup wit dat?? Who writes these laws??!

2.  For U.S. citizens, it is illegal to commit an act, outside the geographic jurisdiction of the U.S. that would be illegal within the geographic jurisdiction of the U.S.  Since prostitution in the U.S. is regulated on a State by State basis you'd think you'd get a pass, but I believe Federal law has now covered that loophole.  If you get a hooker outside of the U.S. you can now be prosecuted when you return.  The law is mostly applied to heinous stuff (like child porn), but this is enormous leverage that can be used against you some day by the wrong party (your pissed off, soon to be ex-wife maybe? ).

Haha Cali, cant agree more with you. But for the thai chicks, my understanding is thatits "part of the deal" to go and fool around when your a thai guy married. Guess am idealizeing too much this country! Mmmmm.... Maybe because its really fun when I go there! :p

Good point. I have the same sentiment here. Although promotion and position in the company is not really my concern, I believe that mixing personal hobbies with work is just never the way to go. I was told by a friend who was working in Singapore,there are actually companies who set a sum of funds aside for this kind of "lobbying" in the KTVs. Never expected something like this to be considered into the company's expenditure.

I actually had a senior female executive tell me that her company did that and she did so in a very matter-of-fact way, basically saying that it was expected of the guys; part of their job.  This was early in my Asia experience and I remember asking her if that bothered her as it would never be allowed in the U.S.; she just laughed and said (literally), "When in Rome .. . I wanted to bang her right then and there!

Yep, KTV business really thrives in Singapore. I have a childhood friend whose father operates one of these KTV place, and he's doing well financially. The last time I asked, their "VIP" room has a SGD 5000/night price tag

honestly, SO should know about it when you do business in China.

don't know about the situation in Singapore, but KTV is definitely expected in China

From a ABC perspective, I work for a Taiwanese company so there was some culture shock my first time. My SO's dad is an exec so she's been exposed to the business side of things regarding KTV's. She can accept it as it's a cultural norm now to try to get your client out to dinner then to ktv later. Her rules are don't catch anything (std's), don't get caught up with 1 girl and no bring home any babies.

A couple of my uncles now reside full time in China for work and I know for a fact they go out and monger at the ktv's with their clients and it's pretty much accepted by my aunts. No one says anything, and I'm sure they have their own rules. I heard about the er nai's all the time during my smoke breaks back in Taiwan.

Regardless, I always say that I didn't bring a girl out or that I passed out drunk. Luckily, she won't call me in Taiwan/China unless I'm on skype and I can always use the crappy internet excuse.

That's pretty much a blank cheque, you lucky sod!

There's all this talk about you can't do business without going to these places but I know of a few guys in HK who I really know are faithful and they have built up very respectable small businesses. Not like net worth $1billion, but probably US$10-20million.

from personal experience I really don't think that you are obligated to go to these things. BUT, if you are participating in $1million+ deals then perhaps the story changes completely.

I haven't done deals worth over that amount so I wouldn't know. I have only gone out less than 10 times with various suppliers.
Having said all that.... I DO agree that it helps the relationship to hang out and party. We just all know that theres potentially a flip side to this....

I agree with you.
But correct me if i'm wrong, it sounds like you live permanently overseas and you only visit china when you need to. You have great reasons for politely declining invitations like jetlag, need to make longD phone calls, need to consult with company on this and that.....

For others who live locally they have much less of an excuse not to go. And if you live locally you are probably hounded 10x more to come out too.

I think there's truth on both sides.  You can do business without, and there are ways to compensate for not handing out free pussy, but they don't always work.  I just recently lost a very, very large deal because I was too busy to go whoring with the rest of the deal team in Singapore.  My bad!  Sent someone else with the whoring skills but not with my 'status' so you can't always outsource/delegate the whoring either.

I tend to think that most are confusing "want to go" and "required to go".  Ask a gang of punters if they are REQUIRED to go to KTVs while in China and you get a huge "YES!!".  But guys, a shitload of businessmen are NOT punters, yet still successful in China.  It just aint true.  

And worried about upsetting a supplier??  Who frickn cares - they want MY business, not the other way around!  I could shit on their desk and still get the price and deadline I want.  Lord knows enough clients have shit on my desk (figuratively speaking) over the years and I still smiled and thanked them for the turd.  

Anyway ---  I'm just saying.

Holy shit! That was YOU?! It took my cleaning lady two days to get that stain out!  

really?! So because you didn't participate in banging a ktv girl you really lost a deal?? And your co-worker that you sent in, because he didn't punt as well as you do, that's why he lost the deal for the company??

Or do you really mean since you have high-status in your company (over that other co-worker) and you didn't participate in the drinking and partying together that you lost the deal?

There's a big distinction between going to KTV just to party & get to know the guys VS. going to KTV to bang some chick.

Well, I only go a couple times a year (located in the USA) so it's not as bad as some of my other co-workers in Asia who have a longer list of rules. Taking a client to these things does help to close the deal, but it does depend on the client as a person. Some guys are just good husbands and don't want to take any risks even if they have a small chance of getting caught.