Hi All;

I regularly post pictures on this forum and another forum. That is all. All the pictures are relevant to the threads and mostly do not show their faces. Before the pictures are being taken, it is my PRINCIPLE to ask for permission. I am also a person who open all my cards, no jokers hidden. Friends of my can read me like a book. I do not tell the WG's otherwise. I told the WG's that her photos will probably end up her for all to see. The WG's actually think it is a good idea that she will be pasted on the internet as they 'might' get more business - Free Publicity in a way. So, thank goodness, my conscious is clear.

I agree with bro reggie, what he said carry some truth. When a picture is taken, it is up to the camera owner whether the picture are for keep sake or do they have a different agenda. What I am saying is simple. In my humble opinion, paste/post, ask and advise whatever is relevant on the subject thread. For example, a guy on this section just started a thread to enquire about fishing and places to fish, there are also other irrelevant stuff. Well, you be the judges?

This forum is mainly about sex, mongering, lust and WG's. So like they say, In monger land, act or do as a mongerer. Just my 2 cents worth!

RGDS
WKK

I see Reggie's point of view also.  Well, in my opinion, I believe it's very difficult to enforce anything in a forum full of mongers who's intent in reading reports is to scrutinize the WGs that are being reviewed.  The pictures taken of the WGs themselves definitely stirs up interest in the viewers.  Not only to compare the real pics with the photoshop enhanced version, but also give a sense of intimacy with the girl while reading the post.  You know you're reading about the report and not looking at a glamorized version of the person but looking at a real live picture of her.  I hope I kinda described that well enough to be understood.

As for policing the mongers that post the pictures and the forum moderators who would take off those that are inappropriate, I believe this is a question that is absolutely debatable and a very difficult one to answer.  We are not here to look at the WGs as just fuck machines, but as humane human beings, look at them as workers in a position they have somehow landed perhaps even under undesired circumstances.  We should give the WGs respect when we take the pictures.

Difficult yes.

But also very necessary.   

Here's an Icarus story, of a parallel situation.  I used to fly Hang-Gliders, and in UK the sport of Hang Gliding is self-regulated (or was back then, don't know if it still is).  Given that EVERY other form of aviation at the time was goverend by the Civil Aviation Authority, with rules, certification, a huge and expensive bureaucracy, and legal penalties for non-compliance, this was nothing short of a miracle.  Simply, government bureaucrats trusted us to show restraint and avoid killing ourselves and others, because they saw a high level of responsibility and standards being set.  

One day I witnessed a guy utterly disgrace himself by literally flying a hang-glider into the ground.  It was in good weather, and he couldn't even explain it himself - he broke a glider that didn't belong to him, got concussion, took the time of an ambulance, hospital stay, doctors, x-rays, etc. just because he was an idiot who misjudged his limitations (i.e. gravity).  Worse, he added one more incident to the closely-watched accident statistics that had to be defended to the CAA every year by hardworking volunteers of the BHGA.  One inconsiderate idiot.  

In this forum we are also self-regulating, and we all take responsibility to avoid becoming a news item or a statistic, and above all the need to avoid creating work for our mods.  

I think the question of what sort of pics to post, and how and where they should be posted, is vitally important, not least because good pics DO add enormous value to all of the membership - punters and hookers alike.  

So I have no hesitation is stating my opinion as my own, respecting fully the freedom of speech of bros who disagree while fully expecting and appreciating the mods for taking responsibility for setting and enforcing standards that are necessary for the longevity and value of this forum.  My opinion is the more risque a pic is, the more rigorously the posting bro must apply legal and ethical standards.  

The choice is ultimately between self-regulation, by individuals or by our community, or being regulated upon - I know which I prefer.

Most definitely necessary.


We need to adhere to general code of conduct that we (as a community) create ourselves.  (and for the most part, we do adhere to it)

Think of it like "honor amongst thieves".
Like thieves, we do things that the general society dictates as immoral and deviant.
But within our brotherhood, we have our own sense of honor. Our own sense of what's right, and what's wrong.

We don't hurt the girls. We "should" be somewhat polite or better. We pay them the agreed amount. We don't take pics of them if they don't want to. etc.


As for self-regulation, it IS a must!

It is up to us, as a brotherhood, to regulate ourselves.  And if we see something that is "wrong", we should fix it.

But hard set rules, and "zero-tolerance" policies, for what pictures are allowed and prohibited will never work here. (personal opinion)

Faux rules:
Since obtaining certification of permission from said WG is impossible to prove on this forum:
1) no face pics to keep the girl's privacy
2) no nude pics for decency
3) no sausages (because sausage-fest is not the reason I come to this forum)
At this point, the database pictures are better than what we can post.



In the end, I think most pictures posted, are acceptable. (assuming the girl allows you)
Some are more graphic than some would like (hey, once you get a glimpse of it, move on)
Some are more tame than some would like (Hey, better than nothing).

So it seems to me, unless a majority of us complain about a specific pic, they're here to stay.

IMHO, that's how it should be.  Pictures that are deemed "inappropriate" by bunch of members (some complaints) SHOULD be reviewed by the moderators (since it's their job... and a good job they're doing!) on a case-by-case basis.

i think it should be the sole responsibility of the person that owns the camera to do whatever he or she wants, everyone must be responsible to its own actions. and if a wg lets a punter take her picture, then she needs to be responsible to the consequences, or else don't let your pic be taken.

however, the poster should also be careful as consequences might happen for him to deal with, such as, maybe a jealous boyfriend or customer sees it, and finds the poster and hurts him, the poster needs to own up to his actions.

so it goes both way in terms of responsibilities.

now, if a guys is trying to take a pic and she says no, then its a different story and that definitely must be respected. picture such as this, would be able to be recognized quite easily, and poster should get a warning, but who am i to jude, i don't runt this place

Exactly!


I think I used the wrong term before....
When I said "But if a girl ALLOWS pictures to be taken of her (naked or clothed), then all responsibility belongs to the picture holder."
I should have said "then all authority belongs to the picture holder."


It's up to the WG, to exercise her authority of saying "no" to pictures, if she doesn't want to risk getting them on the internet.
Once she allows a picture to be taken of her, she is passing that authority to the guy with the camera.
Whether he promised that he won't put it on the net, or will delete it later, or whatever.... it's all up the guy at that point.... and if he wants to post it on the net... nothing can really stop him....  

Hopefully, WG's understand this principle....

I think the choice of the word "authority" is inappropriate. The guy who possesses the pic has the ability to post it yes, but no one has granted or delegated him the right (which is how the word 'authority' is normally used) to post it on the web. In fact, if he obtained the pic by promising that it was for personal use only - i.e., if he lied - he is betraying the 'obligation' to keep his word.

But aren't you just stating the obvious here? Of course after the pic has been taken, it then depends on the guy who has it whether he posts it or not. I don't think anyone really needed that explained to him. The point under discussion is whether one should post pics obtained by deception. It's a question of doing the right thing. Saying, as some do, that it's the girl's fault is just blaming the victim. People make bad decisions all the time; that may be naive, but that's not a free license to fuck people over. If I confided some potentially embarrassing information to someone, that may have been very stupid on my part, but it doesn't "authorize" him to make use of that info to stab me in the back.

I liked what you said in post #54 btw,, so I assume the  authority thing was just an unfortunate choice of words.

[ Last edited by  Marsupial at 8-8-2009 14:16 ]

pictures taken by deception should definitely not be posted, but then again it is up to the punter / poster's decision on what to do with those pics.

I understand that there is a moral issue behind the action of posting a picture gathered by deception, but who are we to judge what is morally wrong or right.

not to be targeting marsupial, but just to keep the conversation going on the topic of right or wrong, and i am by no ways taking anyone's side. we are touching on one of my favorite topic, what is right and what is wrong?

terms such as right or wrong, have been created with special meanings or laws behind them so that it gives the population a direction to take their actions. i understand a society needs laws and rules so that it can be govern in an appropriate manner, but again, what is "appropriate"? it is a very subjective word, or just an adjective with an explanation defined by someone with his/her own idealistic view of how he/she thinks the world should be run by.

and this is what sometimes confuses / intrigues me, what happened if right actually means wrong, and wrong actually means right? we are living to the meaning of right, because that's how we were taught, and i will go as far as saying "brainwashed", i know its the extreme, but us going to school is a kind of brainwash. Again i understand that without this brainwash we would still be living like cavemans.

but there should be a time in a person life to move away from these "idealistic" morals, ethics...... and decide on his own how he wants to live his life. if he wants to rob a bank, even though society portrays it as "wrong", then he has to endure the consequences or reward.... that is because he is bound to the rules of the game in the environment he interacts in, it is his own choice to act on his thoughts, but it is clear that his has the respnsibility afterwards.

not too drag this argument to long, my summary on the topic of this thread is any action we do, must be thought through so that we do not regret the consequences we must face. and i don't believe it is for us to judge if the action is wrong or right. as it will not lead to any result, once a person has settled his thinking it is very difficult to change it. we are all stuborn and don't like to be "wrong"

btw, english isn't my 1st language, so apologies for any mistakes, and hope the above is a logical argument

[ Last edited by  rexia at 8-8-2009 11:25 ]

"Moral relativism, son. Nothing else in the world smells like that.  I love the smell of moral relativism in the morning."


If not we, than who. Are you saying we should delegate moral judgments to someone else, or that no one has the right to pass judgment on anyone else? If the former, who should we consult; if the later, thank you for permission to rape your wife.

All human behavior is moral on some level.

You're right...
"Authority" is probably a poorly chosen word, and "ability" is probably better, and less confrontational....

But it is not wrong.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/authority
Please look at definition #3.

Once the photo is in the possession of the guy, he IS the ABSOLUTE AUTHORITY, when it comes to choosing whether the picture is posted on the internet or not.
No one "authorized" (meaning "gave permission") him to post pictures, but he IS the "authority" (meaning "person in charge, one with the power")
He is the absolute authority, the highest power, the big cheese, that can decide whether the picture will end up on the internet, or not.
The police can't stop him, the WG can't stop him, heck... WE can't stop him....

Is this right (in a moral sense)?  I would say "no".... but other may, and are allowed to, disagree


I don't think anyone is arguing with you here.

The morally right thing to do (under what society dictates), is to keep your word, and not post pictures that you say you wouldn't post.
Heck, the morally right thing to do (under what society dictates), is to not pay for sex, but that's going off topic....

When you say this: "Saying it's the girl's fault is just blaming the victim. People make bad decisions all the time; that may be naive, but that's not a free license to fuck people over.", I totally agree with you. We SHOULDN'T screw them over.

But it does not surprise me the least, when "naive" people ARE screwed over.
I only have so much sympathy for these people.  When you trust "strangers" with something that is potentially harmful to your social life/lifestyle/etc., you need to EXPECT to be fucked over after some point.
I'm not saying it's a good thing, but it IS to be expected.
Darwinism WILL rear its ugly head.


FYI, those that don't understand about Darwinism... it's about evolution and "survival of the fittest"....

Aren't we doing the former?  consulting amongst ourselves?

As for the latter... feel free to try, and you'll likely get a bullet to your head....

SEE!!! I can be an internet tough guy too!   



Seriously though... who says something like that, unless they realllllly want to stir the pot....

sorry, let me rephrase,"who are we to judge others action on what is morally wrong or right", as judging a person is a subjective action. it is meaningless unless the judgee takes it too heart, and lets himself be affected by the judgment.

society has already delegated moral judgment to history, hence today we have a perception of what is wrong or right. and we live by historical definition of what is wrong or right.

as for ur 2nd question, everyone has the "choice" of passing judgement anywhere anytime, but again its a subjective action. does everyone have the "right", now that would need to be defined by the rules / policy of the environment that person is in. for example: if this this forum says you are not allowed to judge others, then i believe members will not do so, and if members don't agree then they would just leave or be banned because they broke the rules.
you can rape my wife, gf, mother, sister, grandma (if you are not disgusted ), but at the end, you have to live with the result, maybe guilty feelings, std, or get caught and put away, or maybe me coming after you and do the same to your family. now after doing so, should i judge this as wrong or right? i can judge but i cannot affect the outcome. society however can judge with somewhat of an efficient outcome. but again, who says society is "right" in judging action of raping as right or wrong? ie: back in the time where the world was ruled by kings and queens, the kings were "raping", maybe not by force, but by authority, and in those time, this was considered normal.

let me provide a real life example as support, north korea is building nuclear weapon, is this wrong? not to their government! but the developed world perceives it as wrong. so who is correct? now, north korea chose this path, and they will have to deal with the boycotts, and the criticism that the world is making. one day, hopefuly they will learn and stop their nuclear initiative if they want to be welcomed by the world, or they can keep doing what they are doing and get punished or maybe rule the world at the end. what i do disagree with, is the world "imposing" some kind of rule, we should just let them run their course, yes, north korea might just bomb the hell out of earth, but maybe if we stop critiquing them, they might not have a reason to keep being such attention needing babies.

again, i am not taking any side, but stating a principle, which is it is our own choice to judge if an action is right or wrong as we are the ones to have to deal with the consequences.

and yes, this is a topic to heart for me

Yes, people are always doing stupid things, and expecting a guy you've known for 45 mins to honor his word about something as potentially damaging as a sexually intimate pic could be used as the dictionary definition of the word 'naive'. And there are examples of stupidity that are very difficult to sympathize with - my personal favorite for scorn are those people who still get taken in by Nigerians claiming to want to transfer 10 million dollars into the account of someone contacted via email - but I take the noblese oblige approach - the strong should look after the weak, or at least not fuck them over. Anyway, I'd feel pretty shitty betraying the trust of one of these girls. So in the end, it's all about what kind of person I want to be.

[ Last edited by  Marsupial at 8-8-2009 22:27 ]

bang! on the dot, and you are a good person in your own right not to betray the trust.
and exactly what i mean with my posts about being the kind of person you want to be.

i have been a member on this site for awhile, and i have not frequented a wg since becoming a member, actually i have only use the service once, it was at 18about 5 years ago, dragged there by an old friend. since i have been a member here, i have wanted so many times to go to all these places you guys talk about. but, i am not ready yet to deal with the possible consequences, such as guilty feelings, possibility of catching std, doing something "morally wrong" (as perceived by society), or maybe be seen by someone i know......
i have set myself some rules on what would lead me to actually making the step of using the service, and the reward needs to be balanced with the possible consequences.

*cough* *cough* do the twins *cough* *cough*       

Mars I couldn't agree more...what is a forum without participation and discussion??

More importantly...since this is a Sex Forum, which can be reflected via the name of the forum forum.sex141.com

I find members who participate and contribute by posting reports, reviews of WGs, to help bros weed out particularly valuable.  I do not however value those who don't participate and simply 'contribute' by raising their opinion's here and there about simply ethics, and morals while not contributing at all with reviews, or opinions about sex and prostitution.

In reviews we use words to provide other people on this forum an account of our own experience. Which in turn other people use to assist in their own decision on whether or not they would like to visit a certain girl or not.

Pictures in reviews are an additional aid to the other people in this forum; giving other people a better idea of what a WG girl looks like, hence I believe that photos should be allowed.

However, Mars, Reggie, I agree that this is actually more of a ethical issue more than a forum issue.  First off, I think we can all agree that if someone actually posts a picture he has taken without the permission of a WG then obviously it should not be allowed.  Just as in if someone where to take a picture of someone on the subway without permission that person is also morally injust.  

However when in the case of a group of people go to the beach and pictures are taken of one another, and if no one objects at the time, those pictures that end up on Facebook, Twitter or any other sites of these types are not said to have been posted immorally.  As a matter of fact most would agree that there is no ethical debate whatsoever.  Hence I would believe that if two or more people are together and one takes a pictures of another without objection then the other is consenting for that picture to show up somewhere, unless they explicitly said that the picture is for the person who took it only.

I don't think anyone who would object to what I've said, so it is most important for each person to act morally, it is not important to set rules, because people who choose to act immorally will not follow rules as to which anyone who has read Aristotle would agree.

I believe that if we are go have 'rules' on posting pictures to back up moral standards then we might as well shut down this forum.  Because a lot of people would also say that prostitution itself is immoral, not to mention having a forum for people to share their experiences.  Even more so it can be said who has consented for use to write about our experiences with a WG?  Perhaps that we need to set rules for writing reports/reviews?

Mars, Reggie, and others I believe have all expressed that they will act according to morality, however they don't like it when others do not, but we can never control the actions of others.  

Twice, if you decided to have rules on posting photos, then I believe you need to back up your moral standards with rules on reviews, and even more importantly you need to question the existence of the forum itself.  I'm not trying to be rude twice, but I just wanna show how ridiculous this actual discussion of photos is, it should not be the discussion of pictures without the discussion of the forum itself.

Thanks for reading all...

I posted my share of reports in the past. I haven't done any lately because it has been 10 mths since I've seen a WG. The reasons for that are twofold: 1. I quite literally no longer have the surplus $ to go whoring. 2. I now live in Taiwan where I've never had to pay for sex anyway. But you guys want to contribute to a fund to fly me to HK every once in a while to do some top notch reporting, I'm your guy.

You are correct, I don't object to most of what you've said. However, I would like to point out that there is a big difference between snaps taken on a beach, and clearly identifiable closeups of a girl gobbling someone's dick for dollars. A pic of a girl playing volleyball in a bikini isn't going to be a potential life destroyer.

But not to worry; no one is seriously suggesting that the forum needs explicit rules for what kinds of pics can be posted - though there are obviously going to be pics that any mod worth his ban button would consider unacceptable even on a whoreboy forum - children, or sadism for instance. Nor did 2/wk start this thread because he's interested in drawing up hard and fast rules on pic-posting. Rather, the crafty manipulator of men was attempting to drain the poison from a discussion in the International Reports section that threatened to give rise to thousand-year grudges.

Sex is the human behavior most heavily weighted down with ethical baggage, so it's only natural that morals will be discussed in any sex forum worthy of the name.  As Spinoza said, "A sex forum does not live on DATY posts alone." Personally, I don't consider prostitution immoral, so I see no need to discuss the buying of sex per se. I'm much more interested in the attitudes guys have towards these girls. Now that's a fascinating topic.

[ Last edited by  Marsupial at 14-8-2009 10:53 ]

Mars...i was not directing the lack of contribute to you, and if you read it that why I would like to apologize...

I as you are one of the few Emperors on the forum it is quite obvious to me that you had once been a huge contributor although it may well have been before my time.

I agree very much with you last sentence of the fascinating topic of people's attitudes towards working girls.  And you might be right that the argument of photos is actually an argument of how people treat working girls.

But as we have previously agreed the ethical standards that each person hold to themselves is quite different.  And it is impossible for Twice and other moderators to know and check that each person on this forum has a high moral standard.  I believe as you have pointed out some postings of girls seem to approach the immoral standards we generally have and therefore should be removed.

However the argument really comes to a standoff when we question the morals of each poster, because we will never know of their discussion with WGs when taking the photos.  Girls that have explicitly asked me not to share the photos I have never posted, but how do we know if this is true of others?  The truth is we can't verify this.

So what do we do?  I do not have a valuable suggestion, truth be told.  Perhaps you do Mars?

My only idea though, however controversial is that the forum seems to rank posting with photos in higher regard compared to reviews that only use words.  I mean I don't ever remember a word review gaining as much Karma compared to one with pictures.  I also noticed that the photos you mentioned, with people actually having intercourse with the WG gain the highest Karma.  Are we, by that nature embodying and encouraging more photos of that sort?  Do we, the senior bros need to better regulate the manner in which Karma is given?

It seems like I am extremely off topic, but it goes to show and I reiterate how ethical issues, however important don't really seem appropriate in a sex forum.  If we were to be completely ethical I stand by the view we need to first review the ethical nature and practices of this forums existence.

Mars, while I value your opinions and well written replies greatly I am curious as to why other senior bros and moderators have not posted their opinions.

If we are to have a truly great forum we need participation in not only reviews/reports but also in the threads were the discussion of the forum quality is brought into question.

paka!!! thumbs up for ur input


Shut down ..maybe not. But this forum is going to be boring.....


Reasons being, same like the rest of the bros, we all have mix opinions and views on pictures posting. That's why we trying to gather and consolidate as much opinions as possible from participating members. Assess all opinions and propose a standardise rule acceptable and not too rigid for the forum.


If you want my personal opinion,  my propaganda has always been:

"Keep the forum SIMPLE!!! We ain;t Nazis!!!"




If we talking about judging another bro/punter, please understand that we are not in position instructing bros to behave in a certain way when engaging in their punting activities.