Have you ever had friends who say this?

I had a friend who is an engineer and in the last 20 years he has travelled as far north as Japan is far south is Australia and as far west as the Middle East working on projects, and he basically had a mistress in every port, Japanese girl in Japan, a Korean girl in Korea, etc. etc.  (okay in the Middle East it may not have been a local girl I believe she was a Gwailo ex-pat working in Dubai). Presently he lives in Bangkok and has a stable of girlfriends there.

One day we were talking about the punting scene in Bangkok and the various punters to come along and he was very adamant and dismissive of those who partake in our favorite hobby and was of the view that you should be charming enough to be able to pull a bird on your own without having to resort to what we do here.

I have others like him, and it is a point of pride that all of the fun times they have had with females have been had for the cost of a drink or dinner (he did admit to me that with one of his birds in Indo he was “helping her family” ), and I assume this does not mean that he was driving the water buffalo or helping them to harvest the coconuts.   

I assume that's why we are all here. Make no mistake, however, I am not the slick and talkative people person and will be the first to admit that my bird pulling skills are minimal to nonexistent . To me it's horses for courses, I like the P4P arrangement as I know what I will get and will never have to worry about “bimbo eruptions” (to quote my good friend Bill Clinton’s campaign manager) coming back to haunt me or screw up my marriage .

Any thoughts?

Anyone have friends like this?

Keep on mongering

every one pays in a way. Buying drinks for girls in bars is just a less direct way of getting the same thing!

Actually, IMHO and in no way wanting to come across as if I think of myself as any kind of Valentino ( I certainly ain't!!) - I do think that its NOT a big deal to seduce ANY girls if one is not overly ugly, old, disgusting, poor, of no confidence, a weirdo etc. ESPECIALLY to get to a WG - who by the very nature of their profession is probably quite needy emotionally and a sucker for even a slight indication of true love.

Those "white faced boys" in China and the Pimps in the West all knows this and easily play these WGs for their own nefarious - and profitable purposes. And then there are those like your friend - who are NOT in need of a buck/are not in need of the gal support - but IMHO, these guys are just as low-life as the pimps and the gigolos.

I mean - Christ - these gals are selling their bodies for money and guys like your friend instead preys on/take advantage of their need to have some kind of emotional comfort, a sense of really belonging to/being loved by another human being. If they really got "game" then ForCrissakes, turn their charms on regular civvies and NOT on WG's who are already under-privileged in the context of society and their standing in it.

Nah, I don't really think very much of these guys. To me they're no better than pimps or thieves who steals; they are actually stealing from WG's - as WG's charge to provide sexual services.

Just IMHO

SEAJ

Umm, nowhere in the thread did gwailoplayer say his friend was banging WGs for free --- just getting civvie girlfriends in each port.  So I think you missed the point.  
Anyway, GP, I assume most Bros went thru this "never pay for it" stage if they have any "game" at all.  I did for years.   For indeed you can go to work on meeting civvie chicks successfully, you can bang them (they like getting laid too), but then you must deal with the strikeouts, when unlucky, or the consequences when lucky.  If your single.  No worries.  But once you've got a serious SO.....  The game changes.  Risk.  You just can't be the "player" all the time anymore. Or if you still enjoy that scene, you do it in an environment that is SO-secure (a Wanchai bar).   WGs are far more secure.

Oh OK - then its no big deal - just a guy doing what's natural. Just re-read the OP properly again!

So what if he's got a gal in every port and got a bevy of them in Bangkok - it's just the usual thing - ain't it??
And yeah, he may be dismissive of our choice to partake of WG's - but I'd think for most of us, its our own choice ain't it? For whatever reason.

And yeah, I'd think that most of us had gone through that phase of just doing civvies; I know I certainly went through a very prolonged period of it even when I was well and married off. Eventually though, I found out that all the effort to chase after civvies NOT worth the time, effort AND danger...when all I truly wanted was just sex.  Pay for it .....and it simplifies my life sooooo markedly!!  
LOL!

SEAN

I dunno. I see this a little differently. In a way, your friend is kinda a dick. I mean, if he isn't paying them, why are they around? Because they have some emotional attachment, some hope that maybe if they play their cards right, there is something more thre. A serious relationship, or a marriage, or someone who will make them more that a girl he bangs when he is in town. But he has no such intention. And come on, how isthat cool?

Nope. I have no intention of doing anything more than banging the girls I meet when I travel. And I don't have the time or inclination to look for the tiny percentage of them that want nothing but a NSA fling when I am in town, who are not insane, diseased, fat, or ugly. Nope, for a reasonable price I can bang a hot Chinese girl, and when I am done, get on with my life with no worries about her calling me, or having her feelings hurt, or any of that shit.

It's like that actor said. I don't pay them to sleep with me. I pay them to leave in the morning. In a sense, it's the same. I pay them to be hassle free, and not to expect anything from me at all but money.

I've tried it the other way. The other way sucks.

I don't know actually!

I mean - it's all fair in love and war ain't it? Two civvies going for it head to head - ain't that how it usually is?
Now if the gal was a WG - then it's an unequal fight - in that the gal is at a definite disadvantage if real feelings are involved - just coz she IS a WG.

But for civvies - well, as a male, I say tough tittiies if she gets suckered; that's how its always been and I certainly hope that's how its gonna be hence.  Yeah NOT Politically correct - but who needs to be PC when it comes to this matter.

I personally have no sympathy for the Women Lib movement....but perhaps this thread is not really appropriate for this forum as civvie reports/discussions are understandably verbotten here.  That was my frame of mind when writing up my first post here: I was just thinking of WG's - and thus my not really understanding the OP at first!!

SEAJ

[ Last edited by  SEAJ at 8-3-2012 01:28 ]

You have hypothesized that these ladies stick around only because they have some emotional attachment, some hope...  But actually you have no idea...  and their motivations may be far more complex.

I can only offer up my own experience.  I live in BKK and have had relationships with civvies (and many paid relationships with WGs, so I'm no hypocrite on this account) over the last four years.  I go out of my way to be very clear about my intentions...  to the point of being blunt on occasion.  If I am honestly interested in a woman, I will say that.  If I see no future in the relationship, I will say quite directly that "We can only be friends, nothing more."  I actually try very hard not to be a dick.  Nonetheless, I am almost 60 and have had fun unpaid relationships with quite a few women half my age.  I think their motivations are several:

1.  Yes, despite what I may say, they may harbor the hope that something wonderful and romantic may occur at some point in the future...  

2.  But in the meantime, they are getting some good sex with a man who can treat them well and respect boundaries...

3.  I do treat them to nice dinners and occasionally to fun trips, so there is a bit of implicit remuneration involved...

All I can say is that you should not judge these situations unless you have first-hand knowledge...  

Have fun, CGP

The Free things in life are always the most Expensive.

If you don't believe that, then you obviously buy into front-load unit trusts and buy extended warranty on all your soon-to-be outdated gadgets.

The attitude of "I don't pay for it" is often borne out of engrained sense of shame or guilt/sin, which is prevalent in western society.  I see this attitude often in my friends from Canada, the USA, and to a lesser extent, UK, and Europe.

Where you don't see much of this kind of guilt is Eastern Europe, Russia, Australia, and especially Asia.

Asians treat sex pretty much like food.  You try what you like when you like, and when something looks appetizing, why not?  The guilt simply isn't there for many Asians.

Attitudes of Asian women are also a little bit different.  Many Asian women tolerate the husband fooling around, with one caveat, that it's not a relationship, and that they don't know anything about it, and their friends know nothing about it.  As long as you are discrete, support the family, have the right priorities, they often turn a blind eye.  This can be due more to dependence on the husband as the breadwinner, but often it's accepted as a normal practice that they can't do anything about.

I haven't met many Caucasian women who say "it's ok if my guy cheats on me, just as long as he comes home to sleep in our bed".  I have met many Asian girls who have told me this.

I once asked an older partner of mine, who professed an undying love for his wife, but goaded me to go out with him every night, when he would cheat on his wife mercilessly with a bevy of young nubile women.

I asked him a question, "No offense, but I don't understand something.  You claim to love your wife so much, but why then do you cheat on her every night?"

His answer was, "If I don't cheat on her, I'll get bored, and then I'll start hating her for trapping me into this boring life.  This way, I have my fun, and when I go home, I know from up to date experience that my wife is definitely one of the better women out there."

Me: "But what does your wife think about that?"

Him: "She pretends not to know, but she knows I love her the most."

Me: "How does she know that?"

Him: "Because when she wakes up in the morning, she knows I'll be there."


If a guy thinks he's getting it for free, he is either delusional, or Kevin Federline.

Frankly speaking, in Hong Kong/Macau, getting a decent looking civvie girl into bed is usually much more expensive than going to a sauna.  If you discount all the calls, texts, time, lunches, dinners, coffees, and gifts, you are only fooling yourself.

I hate to say it here...  But this is one of the reasons why I prefer living in Thailand.  The women there are simply not as mercenary as those in Hong Kong (i can't comment on Macau)....  

Have fun, CGP

having a gf is the same...but instead of cash ..u pay her with jewelry and clothes....lol..

Guys I don't think theres a right or a wrong here. Some guys like to punt, some guys don't like to pay to play. Personal choice. I sure ain't no Valentino or a Don Juan. I pay to play as it allows you to break of emotional attachment. I think therein no such thing as a true friends with benefits or a no strings attached deal. At a certain level there is an emotional attachment and a price to pay. I nearly lost my marriage, kids, house and life because of a friends with benefits situation. It may not be a front loaded unit trust, but my experience has been that civvies end up being a back ended CDO, that is going to explode sooner or later.

I agree with you here.  If I were still married, I would absolutely not touch civvies.  Just way too dangerous!

Have fun, CGP

"Time is money" comes to mind...
with civvie it usually takes more time to get accepted but with wg their acceptance is immediate for the period you pay them.

So basically with civvie you are paying with yr time (with no guarantee of success) and hence money.

A mixture of civvie and wg "relationships" makes good for a well rounded person.

We all pay in the end...it's just how much.

My multi girlfriend time in Dubai was just like that. In the 4 years I was there I had a lot of Filipina and one Chinese g/f(s).

The Chinese g/f who lasted over 6 months and I was dating a Lot of others at the timenever asked for money, we never went out for drinks/food, she just came to my flat for the evening and stay over and we just shagged like rabbits all night and I drove her home in the morning. She even bought me presents sometimes.

Filipina number one over a period of 2 years borrow money, had her teeth braced, and liked to drink with me and was wonderful in bed. One hoiday in BKK. But when I calculated out her costs in term of shags (my currency calc.) she worked out at 67.31aed (143.69hkd) per shag.

Filipina number 2 was again over a 2 years borrow money but paid it back, liked eating out but not expensive, took her on holidays, about 4 times, lovely lady and very pretty her calculation was 120.19aed per shag.

Filipina number 3 lasted over 3 years but with gaps between meeting up, never asked for money and never went out much and sometime brought breakfast when she visited

Filipna no 3 continued......0aed per shag.

Filipina number 4 over a 2.5 year period borrow a small amount, only ever met her for sex and she was very good especially rimming and CIM cost approx 19.23aed per shag.

Overall cheaper than when I was married which cost c. 1502aed per shag.

So back in HK I'd say its in the middle!

Lots of different views here

I used to be one of those who explicitly avoided any form of paid sex, and can even hear my own voice saying the words "I don't pay for it".   

Then I changed my mind

Now I do both ...  

Why do the girls do it?  
It's honestly been an intriguing wake-up for me, to find that yes, there are girls who just want sex, and yes, she happens to want sex with me, with no strings, no payment, and no commitment.  Awesome when that happens

And there are girls who want me to give them sex AND give them money.  

And I'm OK with both ...

Which do I do?  Simple: I take the best available offer

IMHO, there will be many varied POV on this subject.

Those who does it may think there's no big deal but to some, it's completely wrong and unethical.

Is it cheating?
Are we taking advantage of some poor soul who is looking for emotional support?
Are we being a complete selfish jerk for doing it?

I for one will make it clear to the girl (if I intend to start something) that I will only be interested in the physical part of the relationship and nothing more, it will be all about sex and good sex. An agreement has to be reached. But of course as in any deals, there will always be some risks involved. It will be up to us to weigh the pros and cons and all the possible risks involved in the deal. Nothing is perfect, there will never be a perfectly risk free deal.

I have been on both sides and as Markreyes said:


And I have to agree with that. It almost costs me my marriage. Even though I made it very clear to the girl that I am married and I am only there for the fun but in the end as it turns out she was harboring more hope than that. She wanted more than just a fuck companion who will eventually leave.

As Mickyirish said:


I agree to that as well. I almost paid with my marriage and before that, there were all those meals, calls, hotel room fees, some gifts here and there... in the end, paying a couple hundred dollars for the one night of stress free, worry free fun is much more worthwhile.

But of course there are always exceptions to every case...there are indeed girls who just love a good shag and do not ask anything more in return. No doubt there are few women out there who could fuck a guy without the mental and emotional attachments just like an average guy. I have been there, with the MILF in the office affair that I had...initiated by the MILF. We fucked a few times just before she got married and it stopped after her marriage. No strings attached good shag in the sack.

But after getting burnt, I have decided that it's not worth the risk anymore. Punting solves the need for variety and saves me a helluva lot of headaches. I have less to lie to my SO and there is no worries I might say something wrong, do something out of the ordinary that my SO will pick up (she's damn good in picking up non-verbal cues).

I have been there and done that...I'd say, I won't want to go back to the so-called "I don't pay for it" deals anymore. Too much at risk for me now, especially now that I have a kid whom I love very much.

Only if I am single and not married...now that will be a different story....

[ Last edited by  Tuffbod at 8-3-2012 19:37 ]

I think the media in a lot of countries also put a negative spin on WGs, making lots of guys think of them as sub-standard. In the US, the media loves portraying the "crack-whore" image and it can really scare the young guys away. Those of us that have experienced it here in HK or wherever it is a stable business know that WGs are people too and sex with them can be just as good emotionally as with any civvie (and maybe better physically).

This is very much my attitude, why bother with risk when this is supposed to be about stress-free fun.

To me the difference between civvie and WG is that the WG is there for fun, if I were looking to invest time and effort into building a relationship with a civvie I'd expect more than just sex in return (as would they and this is where the risk starts) with alot more emotional give-and-take. A relationship with a WG is a more immediate one (to me anyway) like a therapist of sorts (a friend once used this example) where you can be slightly more selfish as long as you approach the situation with respect.  

Horses for courses? (maybe an appropriate saying)