YEP!  I am in the middle of it right now.  Old guy, 30 year old KTV girl!  Fulfills my every wish, i give her money sometimes and sometimes not.  She has to pay a penalty if she doesn't show up for work in the KTV so I feel I am obligated to cover that.  I buy her small gifts and she brings another girl if she she is"red" or if if ask her to.  She, of course, says she loves me and may in fact like me a bit, but love?  I doubt it greatly.  She says she considers her KTV men clients or customers and it is her work!  How can she love someone and fxxk another different one night after night is beyond me, but I do care for her and enjoy her company, so I'll just take it as it is until it wears out.  mrclen

where is this happening ?

time to wake up dude. like you said, wear it out and move on.

Bro, enjoy the romantic fun while it lasts. But you KNOW no gal that is truly in "love" is going to bring another gal for you to fuck when her period hits. Doesn't happen in real life.


Does she have feelings?  Possibly.  Probably. She is enjoying being a regular of yours, and all the perks that brings (money, stability, the way you treat her).  All good. But don't let your heart or wallet get too involved.  Enjoy her. Move on when the time comes.

Small resort and manufacturing city way north.

Hi Bro,

Just be careful while she is draining your balls that she isn't draining your wallet at the same time!

You need to ask yourself can this develop in to a meaningful relationship?

Also no girl on earth would let you fuck a friend while she has her period. I think this shows that love is not really there for her but perhaps security.

Just my two cents...

Obe

Mrclen,
     I'm not sure about your personal status, single or still married. I speak with multiple experiences with involvement with WG, a couple rather seriously. Let's get some issues straight:
1) how far are you willing to take this relationship to? Are you willing to give her a new life?
2) how sure are your feelings towards her? Let me tell you this, the period of courtship is the most sought after feeling of all times. New love, puppy love, you'll feel as if you are reliving your youth. It's magical
3) Do you have the resources to do this?

Let's assume that you are willing to dive head in. You will have to decide what kind of relationship this would be.
1) Does she continue being a full KTV gal (with outcalls) and only exclusive to you when you are around
2) Does she continue to be a KTV gal but sex is exclusive to you (I'd say that this is preferred from your reaction)
3) Does she stop being a KTV gal altogether

Each of the above has it's solutions. But first, you have to accept this: don't use your set of values and moral standards to measure her/them/WGs. In China, being a KTV gal is acceptable by many. Some even consider it as a decent job, especially if you are young and beautiful but from a poor and uneducated background. You'll have to see how the KTV  gal uses the job to change her life.
Next, about Love. Mainlanders are very practical. If you provide for her, her family, her needs, she will dedicate herself to you. Of course there are exceptions that will bleed you dry but come on, every culture, nation, has these blood suckers.

I've had the rare chance to toy with some of these and I must say that it is a high price, variable gains game. But the feeling is priceless. If you really manage to find someone who truly cares for you and you to her in return, at whatever your age, you will feel re-energised, the relationship will rekindle a lot of emotions, feelings that lay dormant for years will come rushing back. Call it the fountain of youth, elixir of youth. Hey, you only live once! Live it thoroughly!

You may PM me if the discussion gets sensitive. I'm willing to share my experiences with you.

Stanley:  Wow do I really appreciate the responses this little post has gotten me!  It really helps an old guy who thought these type feelings were dead many years ago.  Let me say first that I have the feeling that this relationship, such as it is, is sliding downhill as we speak.  I may go into details later but first i will answer some of the above.

I am married, but the sexual part of my marriage died a slow death death about 15 years ago when my wife had a Hysterectomy operation.  Yes, I still love her, how can you not after over 35 years, but the intimacy and closeness is not there, just a routine being together.  It is more like a normal habit now.  With this girl, the excitement is there, the good sex, is there, the wonder, and the other things I thought were gone, are there..  It is a great feeling to have a nude young body wake up next to you, roll over tell you that she loves you, and be ready for some morning action (after she brushes her teeth of course).  There is more to it than that of course, but it is big part of it.

I really can't give her a new life, although if I were 30/40 years younger I would have to give it serious consideration.
The youth thing!!!!  I thought these feelings couldn't exist for me any longer and it is a fantastic feeling to know they are still there.          Age must have no barrier to love, regardless as to what kind it is!!
I have some of the resources, but am not wealthy by any means.

She is a full KTV girl with outcalls but exclusive to me when I am there.  (At least I think so, who knows what she does when I am working or at business meeting, etc).  On some occasions she has said she will work in the KTV and then come to the room after she just sits because she says I spend too much money to take the KTV room and her at the same time.  When she sees me after, there is no money involved.  And I know she wears the not available dress in the KTV on those occasions.  But who knows if she doesn't go for a ST before she comes up to my room.  

So, trying to be realistic as possible, I know this really can't go anywhere and I am trying to accept that with grace.  I still don't want it to be just p4p situtation as I really enjoy the GFE she provides when we are together.  She has never asked for money for here sick father, etc.  I have taken her shopping but as in any male female relationship, it is pay me now or pay me later!  

Just a little about me:  73 years old, look about 60.  Everything still works.  Not overweight, and in good shape about 180 lbs, mostly bald.  About her: 30 years old, small "A" boobs, and almost nothing in sex is off the table, except swallow, and anal.

We do WeChat, but the chats seem to have cooled over the last few weeks.  I will see her again, I think, in early December and we are planning to go to Harbin for two or three days to see the ice gardens.

More comments and advice are eagerly sought!  Thanks again for all the responses!!!  mrclen

Here is your answer my friend. You do not love this piece of skirt. She is flattering you and you are falling for it. Here in Thailand you see loads of older dudes with their ex hooker wives and GFs and it is blatantely obvious what the score is.

I will tell you a true tale of a bloke I know in HK - he's 65 and his missus is a 30 yr old thai bird he picked up in a knocking shop in Pattaya. They have been married for 10+ years and she is doing a very good job of spending his cash on her family etc and basically anything that gets it away from him and his previous family. You can take the girl from the cunt for sale business though, but take the hooker from the girl. She is filth, and loves getting fucked. How do I know? I fucked her in the toilet of a bar whilst her husband was drunk at the bar (yeah, not my finest moment but I was drunk and she was touching my cock at the bar and insisted I went to the toilet so she could show me her fake titties - what's a guy to do?). I know of 4 others who have fucked her as well. She is part of a gaggle of similar married ladies who go to Wanchai once a week and half of them sell it to send extra off the radar cash back to their families. If this is not bad enough, and you can accept that I am a dirty bastard, I was in Neppies one night and saw a Thai bird standing by herself. Hot piece, not seen her about before, got chatting, starting feeling her up and fingering her in the club but then my then other half called me up and I had to leave early. The next week I was at her wedding to a bloke I sort of knew through sport. Again, he's 50+ and she's 28-30. They are divorced now because, funnily enough, she gave him a dose and admitted she was selling it whilst he was away for work.

Of course, these girls say they are in love. More often they are in love with the idea of fulfilling their promise or dream to their family to get them out of abject poverty.

Give her lots and lots of action. Tell her you want her to make love with other girls and you at the same time. Do everything you can and enjoy it but do it knowing the facts. Spend a weekend with her. Talk to her about the news. Talk to her about things that interest you apart from fucking her and her friends. You might realise then that the prospect of the 23 hours a day you are not fucking will be boring. Then go out and buy a Ferrari. It make you feel young and great and admired by others for a lot longer than this piece of arse will. It will be cheaper as well in the long run.


oh.... and as she is a whore... where is the field report?

edit... and for fucks sake I hope you are still bagging up with her and practising safe sex./.....

[ Last edited by  akka at 6-10-2013 22:49 ]

OK!  Thanks for the insight!  It, I am sure will prove to be invaluable!  OK, I am going to break down more of the story.  I go to the KTV in the hotel where in normally stay in a smaller city in Northern China.  I know the hotel owner very well and the KYV manager, and am treated quite nicely.  The first time I met this girl, maybe two years ago, she was very passionate in the KTV room, (I was alone), and plenty of DFK, and hands iin her panties, pussy, etc.  No big deal, I just wanted to fxxK.  Off to my suite and a good night.  As I repeated her many times, the passion in the KTV cooled, but the response in the room increased.  I can usually bring her off 4 to 6 times in an evening before I do once.  Oh, she has workied KTV for about 3+ years now and how many men could she have had in that time, hundreds(?), but I guess you can't wear it out.   

She then suggested a friend come along as "you like young girls".  At that time it was the typical 1 ST then 1 LT (her) deal in China.  Gradually this has moved into a more 3p situation when I ask, but still not complete 3P.  If I asked she would tell me about her previous night or evening.  Gradually she tells less and less.  And starts to call herself my Chinese Wife.  Last time when red and drunk from the KTV, she asked if I wanted her to call a Korean friend that really fxxked very well.  I said OK!  Not bad, she almost sucked my balls off, and one more off my bucket list!  

There are other girls in the KTV and many of them want to go, or don't mind going, with me as I am not too demanding and pay the going rate for LT, 900 RMB.

Now I have WeChat and we meet up on WeChat.  When I left the last time in August, the chats were frequent and "can't wait to see you, hurry back, I love you, etc, etc".  Recently they have cooled and not as frequent as they were.  So I assume something is going on, new sucker, or she is just getting enough fxxking to be able to put me out of her mind.

Anyway, I assume she will be there for my use when I go back in December.  And I know there are many other available in the same or other KTV's.  I prefer KTV's for the fun and games and the getting to know the girls before the deed.

I just wish I had a buddy there that could help me out and perhaps ease my mind with just how much of a whore she really is and is she doing others while she is supposed to be servicing only me, at least while I am there.  According to her, while I am there she is mine and only mine, even if I go out to other KTV's or dinners with suppliers, etc.  Of course I don't know if this is true or not.  This time I have several appointments lined up and a couple girls I promised to do on this trip.  We had planned a short trip together but who knows if it will happen.

Mrclen,
     Does it matter if she had done 1 or 1000? Does it matter if she is doing someone else when she tells you that she's exclusive to you? Actually, from the description, she is still a WG who is working you. All of them know about this tactic. String someone along and wring him dry. They will tell you whatever you want to hear. If you are there for the GFE experience, don't beat yourself up with all that thoughts. If you start to become jealous or have those thoughts in your mind, then you are treating her as more than a friend with benefits. "Exclusiveness" is just a word. You can never pay her enough to be truly exclusive, esp if she is a WG. It may be different if she is a civvie who freelance. Otherwise, take her on a short trip and that would be more chances of being 'exclusive'.

     What you are feeling will eat you up and you will need to sort it out real soon. She appears to be a very experienced WG. Trust me, they had gone through these episodes too... i.e. finding a nice man, prospective true bf or even husband only to find out that they were lying to them. Almost all WGs will go through this rite of passage. Most will be heart broken and leave or harden themselves and stay for the money. As I said before, DO not apply your educated/western morals and values on them. They are brought up very differently and they see the world VERY differently.

     Something to add... if you want a test, very simple, tell her that your business is failing and you may not be able to afford the trip or ask her if she can pay for her own tickets. See  what happens. I'd say she'll delete you from her wechat contacts.

     There are successful WG converts. There are many levels, many different situations and WGs. Some are really good girls who are forced by circumstances to work. Some very rarely do outcalls and only do either for bills or they like the chap. They have a mission, earn enough to pay debts or save enough to start a business. Then they will really quit and make something of themselves. I've seen some of these and I truly respect them.

     I know what you mean by having that nice young gal beside you. Love to have a beer with you

others are covering your situation much better than I can!  

but this is an interesting aside here ...


I'm very reliable assured by multiple sources - including some wives - that after a hysterectomy a girl's sex drive INCREASES not decreases

Having said that, if you have a P4P girlfriend who's giving you such a good service you're imagining it might be (or become) real, you have a great situation ... and I don't see any need for you to change your situation!  

Steady as she goes bro

One on of the most common tactic by WGs is not to accept money for the session. Trust me, you will pay for more later. Some call it FOC , no.. not Free of Charge, rather, Fuck on Credit. Somehow some of the WGs have developed a 7th sense to detect potential streams of income. Those that can be strung along and be that source of income in multiple ways. Be it rent, shopping, utilities bills, occasional gifts (cellphones, bags), 'medical bills', even pocket money. In Chinese, the saying is '放长线，钓大鱼“ Put out a long line to catch the big fish (direct translation but quite app).

The first reaction by the man is "Oh wow, I'm so handsome/good in bed/there was chemistry that she didn't even want the money! She must like me and the GFE is real! Repeat visits will confirm it.　These are 'multiple streams of income'.

Some other tricks from experience:

1) KTV gals will typically have 1 steady BF (be it real or customer). This is the one who will be the rock bed. He doesn't need to be rich, doesn't need to provide monetarily but he will always be there for her. For her to confide in, share moments with, cooks for him/her. Usually he will be in the know but accepts her for who she is.
2) Then she will have multiple 'part time' bfs. These are the richer ones, visit her occasionally at the KTV which she works. Tips well, perhaps outcalls, certainly shopping, gifts, other promises. This is the one the gal will use to bleed. I've once heard the tactic of asking for the same multiple gifts. i.e. Same Chanel Bag, rolex watch, necklace, etc. Something that is expensive. Once they have the 2nd item, they will sell it.
3) Sob stories galore, someone in an accident, medical bills, parent's home in village needs repair or it will crumble, want to go on self improvement courses (typically English), need to go for a holiday because she is stressed, want a car, etc.
4) They will play the 'cooling off' period to test your sincerity. If you start to respond, reach out to her, she'd got you, hook, sinker n all. Look at it this way, there are many man out there but not many will want to be 'involved' with a WG. However, MANY WGs want to be 'involved' with a civvie man. So the odds are in your favor. Don't respond so much to her lack of messages. Hold back. They play this tactic all the time. Once a KTV gal told me that you have to break off with a man to see if he loves you. They break off relationships as a 'test'. They will quarrel, kick up a scene, lie, cry, fight, all to TEST you. Push the envelop.  See how far you can be pushed, then they will back off.
5) Oh yes, there will definitely be the part about '家用‘ i.e household expenses. They will normally quote this to be 'exclusive' to you but yet again, nothing is enough. If you are not in the same town (even if you are), you can't monitor her 24/7. So don't fall for it. Some tactic by the 'player' if you have enough resources is to give her so much that she is worried about you stopping. I.e. get her to be totally reliant. But this is very high stakes and if you have that much $$, doing that to a civvie with a simple job will do the trick also.

Remember this and remember well, China girls are brought up in a VERY (extremely) different set of values and moral standards. Mostly due to the one child policy, poverty (pre 90s), lack of proper education, lack of strong religious beliefs. Because there's 1.3 odd billion of them, they are very protective of themselves. It is a eat-eat-eat society. However, if you had won their heart, they will fight to the death protecting you. See how Rupert Murdock's wife defended him (more like attacked the assailant) when someone tried to push a pie into his face!

Wow--and WOW Again!  Thanks everyone for their advice--There is really so much good information here that it is difficult to absorb it all.  I am in the gift mode at the present--Not so much money for her company, but if offered she sure doesn't refuse it.

One thing I have noticed and haven't seen it mentioned much is the difference between when you first start with a WG and later on.  Just want to bring this up before i get into the rest of the subject and forget.  When you first take a girl from the KTV, you are a customer and she "works" to please her customer.  As you perhaps become her BF, you are no longer a customer so she doesn't have to "work" at pleasing you.  So, as a BF, and assuming she still works, you/we are asking her to "work" at work. and then go back to "work" to please us.  On my last visit with her, I threw money at her and told her to get out because I wasn't getting the "service" I wanted.  Short of it, many tears, left, made up the next day and all was good!!  Back to Stanley's post.

1.  She swears she doesn't have an outside BF.  But I have no way to know.  
2.  This I am fairly sure I am one of.
3.  Never has given me a sob story.  Does say her father has diabetes lives close by and walks her dog when she doesn't get home.  A little strange and I am not quite sure this is real.  Has shown me pictures of her "father" a rough looking man in peasants clothes.  Another girl in the Same KTV is trying this approach and I am playing along for the moment to see what happens.  Definitely will not be suckered into this other ones "problems".   
4.  Could be the cooling period, we'll see and I will take the approach given above.
5.  And this one could floor you.  Suggested that I come live with her and she would still work and take care of me, WTF??

Another poster suggested (a good one), that I tell her my company is in trouble and I can't afford to pay for her to go with me on a short trip.  I will try some form of this, but I want to take the trip and need her for my guide!

Anyway, it's an unbelievable relief knowing that I am not the first one to experiencing this situation, and what a great help everyone has been.

Last thing, I will be in China again from 5 December through 16 December and I would love to get together and have that beer!.

mrclen

Please, don't throw the money at them. It cuts the deepest! Even if she is just a WG, she'll feel it.

About them turning from WG to GF, what happened for me was I didn't give them $$ at the joint. I'll give the $$ at other times. If it's for buying her time for the night, I'll give it to her for her to take it to the company. If I go to the KTV and takes her home after that, I'll give the money in total. But my MO usually is to give a lump sum every month that covers rent and some expenses. This will give them a lot of security because it takes their mind off having to worry about rent.

In my experience, they will become 'less service' oriented when the GF factor starts. However, this is a good thing. She will also become very protective of you.

[ Last edited by  stanley11 at 8-10-2013 09:24 ]

again, if it's going well, stay on course ...
you can take her on the trip, and have a ton of fun - sounds like you have the money the time the energy and the inclination for it, do it!

THEN you can test her at some time in future "Honey, I've been trying to protect you from bad news, but there's something you need to know about my business ..."

your 5 is interesting ... maybe she wants you as the BF / house-husband??

Throwing money!  I did it and regretted it later!  She came to my suite in the hotel after her KTV session and wanted to go to sleep.  I of course wanted to make love!  She would have accepted but there didn't not seem to be any desire.  I got out of bed and went to the other room to sleep.  Morning, 7 am---woke her up and told her to get out and threw money at her.  I have to say at that point I was quite angry.  Doesn't excuse anything however!  (She did pick up the money though). She was also going to show me her apartment that day.

From my 26th floor hotel window I could see her walking back to her home, (she lives fairly close to the hotel).  Every so often she would stop and squat down with her head on her knees, for a couple minutes, then get up walking very slowly with her head bent down, stop and squat again.  She did this several times until she was out of sight.  I really felt like a shit!!!  I could see she was crying even from 26 floors up.  She did not know that i could see her.  

Later called up, abjectly apologized, set up dinner for that evening.  All was forgiven, I think, and things proceeded to a very good night with the full range of great sex and loving GFE until the next morning when I had to pack to return to the USA.

Anyway the money throwing is something I still regret and wish I had not done it.  I agree that when the relationship moves into the GF/BF stage, the "service" may start to be lacking.  mrclen

Well, I suppose we have all done and said things in our lives that we regretted.  Good that you made amends with her.  Yeah, some punters could care less about a WGs feelings - they're "buying a service, so fuck'em".  I've never seen the value in being so cold-hearted.  Quite the opposite, I've found.  Treat them with respect and you get a world of karma and payback in return.

Anyway:  I have had many, many regulars where we completely "act" like BF<>GF (weekends away, movies, dinners, clubbing, etc,) but I have never had this problem of the service-decline.  Perhaps it is because I have never done the retainer thing.  I always paid each time (though this does get more and more awkward as you get closer to each other).  If I saw a gal for a whole weekend (mmmm, I remember a number of Thailand trips and a few manilla trips!) then I would pay at the end, so the day-to-day was easy (and usually any amount I chose (but I'm generous and they knew that heading in)).  But even with the short-time meetings it often turned into me discretely slipping cash into her bag and her not even looking or mentioning it until out the door.  

All part of maintaining the illusion that kept our encounters more pleasant for both of us.  We WERE BF<>GF during these encounters.  Nice times.  Great memories.

Of course, these were with bargirl freelancers.  They were NOT fucking all nite before seeing me.  I could definately see a sauna girl or a KTV gal wanting to do anything BUT fucking when you met.

Mrclen I'v e been reading this thread with great interest and first that k you for sharing your thoughts and experiences. Anyone enough has ounces for a while goes tbrough this at downstate to some degree, whether it is developing affection or mistaking lust on our part and attention from their part for something more sincere or meaningful. No matter what, we all pay price. If you can dismiss it asa monetary price, good for you. For some it is more painful at the end. I nearly lost my marriage, family and a year of my life for decisions I've made. I left the forum and asked the admins to totally delete my records and previous log in ID.  I wish you all the best and hope you find what you're looking for. My biggest lesson learnt was you need to value what you have and not to mistake what you see or feel as being something else.

Wander, thank you. Pain yes,  but the greater pain was felt by my wife and kids. They say time healsall wounds and a fair amount of time has passed. My aactivities have curtailed and I'm pretty mucha massage and HJ only guy now. My family have given me another chance and I'll try to stay on the narrow path.

There is no doubt that WG have emotions and feelings and yes they can develop attachments. For them it may be just as much a mirage as it is for us. A "BF / GF " relationship may be real, butthe mirage for them is to confuse security for overnight. The security ofbeing in a rrelationship, develops as the WG embraces the security of a steady client and the security of at least knowing something about them.