you apologize if something goes wrong, do they have to be equal? if you run over a kid because he suddenly stepped in front of your car, or you run over a kid because you were busy doing SMS, do you have to apologize? one is not your fault, and one is.

even the US apologizes for drive by shootings and campus shootings, and this has nothing to do with how their security forces handled the incident

yes, i am filipino-chinese

Your posts make less sense as you try and rationalize what you posted.  

Aquino is not sincere in his apology, this is the general view, as it comes 11 days after the incident.  It's as if he figured out he can't get away with lies and deception, and is trying to win brownie points by coming out with an apology now.  If he were a real leader, he'd have done it immediately or at the least, the day after the tragedy.

Second, I don't believe that the Chinese government owes the entire Philippine nation an apology for a single madman that went on a killing spree, as they handled the case as best as reasonably can be expected, with the outcome that the killer was executed by the state three weeks later.  As I said, I would have expected that the families were given condolences or apologies, and its reasonable to say that it was probably handled diplomatically thru proper channels, as no news ever broke out.

Just because it was not plastered on the front page of the news does not mean it was covered up.

A death or murder usually does not hit the front page of any newspaper, unless it is so high profile that it can't be missed.  That is most newspapers, if you read any beyond the Philippine tabloids that pass themselves off as independent main broadsheets.

By saying that "at least" Aquino apologized while the Chinese did not for some unrelated and inequitable incident is a disservice to the memories of those who died due to incompetence of the Philippine government, and more over, when the Philippine government could not just own up to the incident immediately afterwards.

again, you're saying "my post", as it is not. the only thing mine was the 1st line. cover up or not, i have no interest to find out, nor is it my point of view.

apologizing is a common courtesy, and i expected it be done.

your posts are more subjective than mine, i didnt say anything except post an email that has been circulating, the contents of which are not my views. by saying aquino is insincere in his apologies, you are judging the man. while it is the general view, it is still an opinion, and only aquino knows if he was sincere or not. from the very beginning, i was only concerned with the apology. it was your post that said "my comparison" is not accurate as the events dont equate to each other. i did not discuss the events in the email in any way.

"my posts make less sense as i try and rationalize"? let me remind you that i'm only rationalizing the 1st sentence, which is an apology is a basic courtesy that should be done. i am not rationalizing or trying to explain the contents of the email in any way.

you need to distinguish what is my view (the 1st sentence) and what is not (the contents of the email)

[ Last edited by  DaBestHK at 6-9-2010 15:44 ]

If you are only trying to say that Aquino apologized, then you should have left the entire unsubstantiated e-mail out of your initial post.

By including the e-mail, and stipulating that China did not apologize for that event, and that "at least" Aquino apologized, you are basically inviting a comparison between the two.

Perhaps this is just a result of poor communication skills.

Whatever the case, yes, an apology is a general courtesy, but an apology made almost two weeks after an incident, after you initially denied culpability and pointed fingers to basically anybody with a pulse, is no apology at all.

bros, bros, bros ... we all have our opinions about this tragedy especially on such an emotional mater ...
but I think we can all agree that it was the way the Philippene goverment officials performed during
and after this tragedy that has left everyone with disbelief ... end result, so many shattered families ...
and the survivors have to live the rest of their lives in the pain caused by these inept officials

thank you Professor. while I dont agree with what you're writing, i will let you have the last say

I have to agree with mark. His last string of posts have summed up my thoughts exactly.

you can't blame people for misunderstanding your post if you're gonna place the email and your opinions in the same context.

the chinese goverment owes no apology. They hadn't neglected any of their responsibilities. You can argue that it would be a courteous gesture but not beyond that. Its the same when you attend a funeral and 'apologize' to the family members - pure courtesy and nothing else.

According to this article the Philipines has a lower murder rate than the U.S.

Mind you if the Philipines is as corrupt as many here are saying then I would assume that there are a lot of unreported murders, but it would have to be triple the official rate listed to reach the same level as Los Angeles.

http://www.angelescity.com/index.php?newsID=297

Scary stuff, was watching it live on TV hoping no one will get hurt. Far out corrupt cops...message to all stay away from the Phillipines!

Blame limited on Manila hostage crisis
Only one of eight government and police officials blamed for last month's bungled hostage rescue in Manila that left eight Hong Kong tourists dead should face criminal charges, according to a government report.
Manila Mayor Alfredo Lim should immediately face administrative and criminal complaints for alleged blunders that caused the daylong hostage standoff on August 23 to degenerate into a bloody end, said a report by a fact-finding committee.
Seven other officials should not face charges unless a future investigation substantiates them.
Interior Undersecretary Rico Puno, the highest official blamed for the botched rescue, offered to resign on Wednesday.
Puno, who helped oversee the blunder-ridden rescue, said he will submit his resignation letter when President Benigno Aquino III returns from a US trip next week.
"If I'll be a burden to the president, I'm willing to resign," Puno told a news conference.
The bungled rescue attempt left eight Hong Kong tourists and the lone hostage-taker - dismissed police officer Rolando Mendoza - dead on a bus parked at a historic Manila park in a standoff watched by millions on live TV.
The incident damaged ties with China and Hong Kong, which warned against travel to the Philippines, prompting thousands of tourists to cancel bookings.
It sparked Aquino's first major crisis, less than two months into his presidency.
Aquino on Monday ordered a fact-finding report to be released to China and the public, but withheld release of a crucial section - seen on Wednesday by The Associated Press - that placed much of that blame on Lim and Manila Police Chief Rodolfo Magtibay, saying they had failed to perform their roles in overseeing the crisis.
Among other lapses, Lim and Magtibay left the scene for a restaurant before the hostage-taker started shooting the hostages.
Magtibay allegedly defied Aquino's order to deploy an elite police commando team but instead used a local SWAT team, the report said.
It was not immediately clear why charges were not recommended against Magtibay.
He was replaced by another officer during the standoff and subsequently lost his job as police chief.
The report lamented a plethora of errors that "conspired to produce the tipping point."
Lim, himself a former Manila police chief, has angrily denied the allegations.
On the verge of tears, he defended himself and the police in front of TV cameras, reminding the public of the risk that law enforcement officers face while in the line of duty.
Two radio journalists accused of tying up the hostage-taker's telephone line by interviewing him during the standoff may face complaints for not adhering to ethical rules in covering the crisis, the report said.
The radio station's manager and staff may also face complaints, as could the country's three major TV networks, which aired the crisis live.
All eight hostages were killed by Mendoza, the report said, noting that more tests were needed to verify if police gunfire hit some of the victims. Another seven Hong Kongers were wounded.
Link here:
http://news.smh.com.au/breaking- ... 20100922-15mzx.html

The mayor Alfredo Lim should resign as well. He is a finger pointer and was feasting and drinking at a nearby restaurant at the most crucial time of the hostage crisis because he said he was hungry. He admitted that he was in charge of the crisis at the time so why not order a take out. Just wonder what Lim was drinking at dinner, Fine wine which his driver had collected from his home or some beer with the rest of the senior police. How stupid is that?

did you see the fucker's outburst on TV when he found out he was implicated
in the report ... he then went on to say the police chief was in charge and not him !!!

let's see later what the philippines had put down in their accident report after HK receive it. HK is also working on the report too and hope can give us more details about the accident.

Sorry for potentially bringing levity to such a serious topic, but I came across two of PI's finest officers in AC today...

[ Last edited by  lister01 at 23-9-2010 18:34 ]

Looks like the report of the findings will finally be released on Monday. It was supposed to have been released a week earlier. Think it looks bad again for the Philippines that they have to delay the report for a week as it seems they need a week to go over it again to fudge some details.

Just browsed through today's SCMP and saw this article entitled "Police in Manila may avoid charges" which goes as follows:

Senior Philippine police and public officials could escape criminal prosecution over the Manila bus hostage tragedy in which eight Hong Kong people were shot dead, according to a leaked report.

A legal team for President Benigno Aquino has recommended that only the two radio journalists who interviewed hostage-taker Rolando Mendoza during the 11-hour stand-off face criminal charges.

A report leaked to the respected opposition newspaper Malaya said a presidential palace legal team had reviewed the Incident Investigation and Review Committee (IIRC) report into the tragedy and recommended to Aquino that only administrative punishments be imposed on police and officials.

It says journalists Michael Rogas and Erwin Tulfo should face criminal charges for "reckless imprudence".

Last night, Hong Kong Journalists Association general secretary Chong Hiu-yeung said: "The journalists were simply doing their job. If they did anything wrong, it is more a moral issue than a criminal matter. I don't see why they should bear the most responsibility for how the hostage incident turned out."

One of the survivors, Li Yick-biu, criticised the Manila government for trying to make media the scapegoat. "The whole issue is not about the media.

"It is about the poor response by the Philippine government and the Philippine police. The media only wanted to report the news.

"We expect the report to tell us the truth and find out which officials should be held responsible, not finding a scapegoat," said Li, who, with his wife, was among the first to be released by the gunman on August 23.

It is not yet clear if Aquino will back the recommendations. Chief presidential legal counsel Eduardo de Mesa said the president was likely to give his decision on Monday.

Earlier recommendations from the IIRC said the journalists should be investigated by their peers for violations of the media's code of ethics.

According to the Malaya report, among the police and public officials who could escape criminal prosecution are local government undersecretary Rico Puno, newly retired Philippine National Police director General Jesus Versoza, four other key police officers, Manila mayor Alfredo Lim and vice-mayor Francisco Domagoso.

If Aquino approves the recommendations, IIRC panel member Roan Libarios said: "It means both Rogas and Erwin Tulfo would end up in jail while all the officials would be free from criminal action. In effect, the worst penalty they [the government and police officials] can get is to be sacked from office and forfeit their retirement benefits."

Last week, Aquino ordered his executive secretary, Paquito Ochoa, and de Mesa to review the IIRC's recommendations on the sanctions to be imposed on 12 individuals and three media networks as a result of the botched hostage-rescue attempt.

The IIRC said eight government and police officials collectively mismanaged the crisis.

This led to an earlier recommendation that, apart from imposing administrative sanctions which could result in their dismissal from service, a preliminary investigation "for any possible criminal liability" be conducted against a number of police and officials, including Versoza and the ground commander, Police Chief Superintendent Rodolfo Magtibay.

The report is released and this article is featured in today's SCMP:

Philippine President Benigno Aquino will not pursue criminal charges against most of the officials found responsible for the botched August 23 hostage rescue that left eight Hong Kong holidaymakers dead.
Aquino rejected an independent panel's recommendation to investigate or file criminal charges against eight police and government officials for their roles in the crisis.


Instead, he ordered the filing of administrative charges against six of these officials.

Only one official, Deputy Ombudsman Emilio Gonzales - accused by hostage-taker Rolando Mendoza of demanding a 150,000-peso (HK$26,700) bribe for favourable treatment - will be investigated for possible criminal liability.

The president's actions fall short of those recommended in last month's strongly worded report by the Incident Investigation and Review Committee. It said action should be considered against 10 government and police officials, two journalists and three broadcasters.

The president ordered the National Police Commission to file administrative charges against four police officials - Manila police chief Rodolfo Magtibay for gross incompetence and serious neglect of duty; Manila regional police director Leocadio Santiago Jnr for less grave neglect of duty; chief negotiator Superintendent Orlando Yebra for neglect of duty; and Manila SWAT team leader Santiago Pascual for gross incompetence.

Aquino referred the panel's recommendations against Ombudsman Merceditas Gutierrez to the House of Representatives, which would determine if her actions were grounds for impeachment.

Office of the Ombudsman spokesman Jose de Jesus said: "We stand by what we did. Our office will never compromise with a criminal." Gutierrez declined to comment.

Aquino also asked the Department of Interior and Local Government to initiate administrative proceedings against Manila Mayor Alfredo Lim for misconduct in office and simple neglect. Lim was the only official for whom the committee recommended outright criminal charges - it suggested investigations into criminal liability for the other officials.

The report was especially critical of Lim's performance during the crisis: "Lim's conduct bespeaks of a weak, if not anaemic, response to the hostage-taking crisis, unmindful  of its gravity and the urgency of its resolution as every moment of delay in ending the crisis increases the risk to the safety of the hostages, mostly foreign nationals, and the damage to the image of the country before the international community," the report stated.

The president's decision to only pursue administrative charges against the mayor drew particular ire from those affected by the crisis.

Tse Chi-kin, the elder brother of slain tour guide Masa Tse Ting-chunn, said his family was disappointed that the government set Lim free from prosecution. "He is the most direct factor that has caused the tragedy. His order to arrest Gregorio Mendoza, brother of the gunman, triggered a series of actions," he said. "The report is meaningless to us. It does not comfort us at all."

Hostage survivor Li Yick-biu said Lim should shoulder the greatest responsibility, but in the end he just received administrative punishment.

"It definitely shows that government officials are defending one another and how chaotic the Philippines' political system is," he said. "As a government, you can say whoever is guilty. But whether it is convincing is another case."

Survivor Lee Ying-chuen said the report had pointed out big mistakes made by officials, yet they were not asked to shoulder criminal liability.

Lim did not answer his mobile telephone last night and his office did not release a statement.

University of the Philippines Professor and human rights attorney Harry Roque said that it was unlikely that the administrative charges would lead to dismissal. "Looking at the charges, I don't think any of the charges will warrant sacking. They are too minor," Roque said.

The president had harsh words for two reporters, Michael Rogas and Erwin Tulfo, but did not recommend criminal charges to be filed. Rogas was criticised for conducting an extended interview with Mendoza that obstructed police negotiations, while Tulfo was the last to speak to the gunman before he began shooting the hostages. "Their behaviour was irresponsible, bordering on the criminal ... We expect this kind of unprofessional behaviour not to be repeated again, or we could be compelled to ask Congress for appropriate regulations to protect the safety of the public, our security forces and media itself," Aquino said.

The president elected not to recommend criminal charges against the reporters and broadcasters after a leaked Palace report suggesting sanctions sparked outrage from journalist groups late last week.

Three officials will not be punished for their roles in the crisis, despite the IIRC's calls for censure - Department of Interior and Local Government Undersecretary Rico Puno; recently retired National Police Chief Jesus Verzosa and Manila Vice-Mayor Francisco Domagoso.

During yesterday's press conference, Aquino said Puno and Verzosa did not break any laws during the August 23 crisis. Aquino said he admonished Puno and the DILG secretary for "failing to uphold the high standards of performance that I demand ... The outcome was a commitment for more professionalism".

The president added that his government is taking steps to enhance the country's ability to respond to future crises, including redrafting the Malacanang crisis manual - establishing a presidential situation room to better co-ordinate the response in a crisis - and assessing the needs of law enforcement for additional training and equipment.

"This is our society, this is our culture, these are Filipinos at their worst ...

This is our society. It drives otherwise ordinary and simple men to turn into murdering monsters at a snap. In this investigation, this Committee looked into the hostage-taking incident and ended up looking into the nation's soul, and find that we are all equally guilty of pulling the trigger of the gunman."