Thanks for making me feel like a fossil.

I don't think I have any problems with how much sex I get, both civvie and WG.

Not all girls have one-night stands, I'm sorry to say.  If you truly believe this, you must not hang out in certain social circles, just as I probably don't hang out in yours.  A lot of girls, if you get to know them, do not have sex except with their boyfriends or husbands.  Are you serious with this continued assertion?  

And as to your comment about Gweilos, I really don't see how race has any import to this discussion.  If you want to bring up the race card, do so, but I think you will find that being Caucasian in Hong Kong does not always have benefits.  There are advantages and disadvantages to being any race in any country of the world.  If you travel enough, you would know this.


--------------"Sorry but you are wrong. What I think you are confusing is the amount of ONS sex you have and the average women. ONS is sex outside a relationship, and this can come after a meal, a drink, or just seeing the driver in tight trousers and getting a wet gusset. All women have ONS (on the assumption they are not married or in stable relationships and even then it is not a given). If this were not the case, there must a a handful of girls getting fucked 400 times a night because a lot of men are having ons. Could it be the case that you are trying to make yourself feel better about your lack of free fucking by hoping no one else is getting any? Do you have your eye on some young lovely in your gold plate festooned cafe bar full of people wearing white suits, hoping that one day she will let you hold her hand, and all the while fearing that a Gweilow has be breaking her back doors down during lunchtime?"


I think you are making a lot of assumptions about me as well.  I do not think I come from the highest level of society, far from it.  If you actually read my posts and understood them, you would realize this.

I'm actually not talking about some wealthy friends to try and "elevate" myself, but to basically depict how different the perception of norm is to punter who buys gifts or other material goods for WGs.  You will never see me buy a car for a WG, but I can see how some people might find this normal and well frankly speaking, to have no impact on their lives.

My analogy is on the precept that people will pay cash for a WG.  Now, generally, I think we can assume that the higher the price, the better the product.  In the case of a car and house, we may be talking about a Victoria's Secret model versus 800 HKD for that Lisboa freelancer.  While not always true, it very often follows that  "you get what you pay for".

This is a fundamental truth you seem to be missing.  And in their case, if you can eat Prime Rib instead of Hamburger, why not?  You can only eat dinner once a day anyways.


----------------"I don't agree with your contention at all, and you are making a basic internet forum mistake as well. You are making assumptions about another member that are based on nothing apart from knowledge of yourself and your own standing, and believing that no one could possibly ever be better placed in society than yourself. Well each to their own, although I tend not to associate myself with people who need to talk about their wealthy friends or be this crass. Also, your analogy is flawed as well unless the man was giving the Veyron to a girl to have sex with her, whilst another man the next night fucks the same girl for free. So if this is what you were inferring, then yes, he is a loser. Also, I think I would kill myself rather than buy a girl a house just to fuck her. Seriously, how miserable must your existence be, when you are alone surrounded by your flash trappings of oodles of cash, to realise that the only reason people and girls spend time with you is because you have to buy them expensive gifts. So not obnoxious, just plain simple observation which if thought about by earnestly by most members, they would agree.



Actually, I never said I need to splash cash on a hooker.  You are misinterpreting my message.  Go and read it again.  If you still don't get it, I can refer you to a good English language textbook.

-------"Firstly, thank you for the frank admission that you "NEED TO SPASH (sic) CASH ON A HOOKER" to make yourself feel good. It is a brave man to stand up and admit a hollowness in their life that is only filled by lavish displays of cash on girls paid to spend time with him. Not my cup of tea I must say, but accepting is the first step to recovery. "


There is really nothing in this paragraph I can reply to, as you seem to be rambling on.  I will touch on the mind set.  The mind set behind it (buying expensive gifts) is because I want to, and because it will make them happy, and I'm not unhappy.  That's pretty much all there is behind it.  It is no different than buying a girl a meal at Mcdonalds, except the scale of the gift.  Referring back, I can see how some of my friends can buy a girl a car, because it literally will not change their life today or the next.  Just as a high school student can buy his girlfriend lunch, I can buy a girl a diamond bracelet, just like how Sergey Brin can buy his girlfriend a private jet.  It's just a matter of resources and how you view it.

--------I'm not demonizing at all. In fact, this thread is not about knocking people who do. It's trying to understand the mind set behind it. Crass as it sounds, if I wanted to walk into Tiffany's and throw 15k down the gurgler on a whore, I could do so. I don't want or have to though because I know that without it, both me and who ever I am with is still having a good time. In fact, I have a better idea that in civvie street, or with a WG off duty, they are there because they like spending time with me and not because they think they will profit from it.  I have more respect for the dear member whose name I have forgotten who said he has helped quite a few newbies in the china KTVs by buying their bond and getting them out of their slavery. At least he was doing it for them, and not to make him self feel good.


You are making assumptions here that are quite incorrect and frankly offensive.  I'm very comfortable with what I have, and what I do.  Even when I engage in business now, it's more for accomplishment than sheer wealth, although without wealth, you don't have that luxury.  That's just the way the economics of this planet is.  "Look up to people who are cash rich"?  I don't even know where you got this statement from except from the imagination of your mind.

---------Mr Reyes - I would avoid looking up to people who are cash rich. They throw it around and believe every one loves them, but if they were ever honest to themselves, they can never truly be at peace and relax because they know that without their brash displays of wealth, they are alone with themselves. The ones who are honest with themselves usually then turn to drugs, booze and suicide because they don't like being alone with themselves because they are, basically, shallow and obnoxious.


Akka, I have no problems with how you like to pursue girls without bringing up money.  And I'm comfortable if my other friends like to buy some girl a car and house to fuck her.  And I'm comfortable that I do both, depending on the situation.

All I was doing in my posts was describing the mentality of myself and some people to bring some diversity to this thread.  You seem to refuse to accept that some people have radically different opinions and mindsets than yours, and that these are not because of deficiencies in their lives, but of greater resources and different priorities.

You don't need to get all personal and start shooting off personal attacks just because some people don't go about things the way you do, or the way you think it should be done.  As you so eloquently put it, acceptance is the first step.

[ Last edited by  markreyes at 21-8-2010 21:54 ]

Sorry about that mate, but it is not like we are fossils. The world just advanced sexually in speeds faster than light.  

This also one of my stupid personal weakness, I keep thinking what adventures I would have if I was part of the current sexually active generation. I guess that what our fathers felt and what our sons will feel. Guess its the little punter that is in our hearts. For me, I try to compensate this fleeting emotions with being extra respectful and a little passionate with the escort type WGs, but in the same time I am guilty of avoiding giving the same treatment to the walk-up WGs. This obnoxiousness might have been a result of my upbringing, or my brain lying that KTV girls only sleep with customers they click with in contrast to normal WGs who will have 10-15 customer a day.

Is it true that KTV girls only sleep with one each other day? I don't know and frankly I am avoiding the answer so not to ruin the fantasy I live during that punt. I admit its a messed up way of thinking, but alas am a human being with a heart and a dick. can't be Buddha.

@markreyes

I think your points are a clear cut as a diamond, but allow me to say this, regardless of a person's financial ability, there should be a limit of how much you shower a WG. To my understanding, some girls will find it offensive. I found that the hard way once with a WG that had a sense of pride.

I met this girl on the airplane going to Singapore, she was sitting besides me and she looked quite demure. I tried to strike a conversation with her ( I didn't know she was a WG at that time), after couple of mishaps, she started to really open up. Maybe cause I am a foreigner, or maybe cause I was acting like a stupid guy that wasn't interested in her sexually. Got her number and decided to call her next day for a date, I had this idea of getting into her pants by the night by showering her with attention and generosity. But to my surprise, even after I coerced here to stay the night at my hotel, she put boundaries in the bed and didn't take her clothes off.

I thought to my self "ok this girl is not interested in me, but went along either using me or out of respect", I didn't push her, I was quite docile in this part of the date, I never tried too hard, always gave up on seducing a girl at the first hint of rejection (not sure was it because I was afraid girls will ignore me or from the shame of being rejected if pushed). Anyway, the days flow and she called me and asked if had free time to hang out with her, I was happy and my dick saluted, but again to my surprise that date ended up being a false alarm, but atleast I found out she is interested in me, so I thought maybe it was because of my stupid approach? Bear in mind I still don't know she is a WG in a KTV, as I took her word that she is a student.

The days go on, with each time one of us approach the other for a hangout, again never reached the mouth for kiss let alone the pants. But interestingly, we used to talk about WGs in the KTV quite often and she was listening to my opinions with sharp senses. The way I viewed them at that time wasn't something I am proud of, and that might have put her off everytime as I started to notice that she gets upset. Then soon after, trying to put all the clues together, I decided to do some investigations, asked a mms I know in TAM about a girl with her name, and to my surprise, she was a WG there. I asked the girl later why she lied to me, and her answer stroke my like a lighting bolt:

"I didn't want you to look at me with the same way you look at the WGs, I liked your personality, you are a nice and sweat little guy, I wanted to have you as a good friend, have some nice fun, take the pressure of my miserable life. But your views, the way you tried to shower me with money so you can end up in my pants in the night, is the same thing I keep seeing from the disgusting old men that come to the KTV, you kept reminding me of them, and that put me off even when you are a sweat guy. I just wanted a respectful relationship where you respect me for whom I am, an intelligent woman, and not try buying your way to my pants with money. "

Although it was a shock at first that these words came from a Wg, it was a wakeup call for me, started rethinking a lot of my views regarding all women, not just WGs.

Just be careful not to hurt the pride of a WG, thinking that you can buy them happiness with money.

I think a KTV would be closer to 1-2 a day, excluding anything on the outside.  The ones I've met are generally 2, although of course, this depends a lot on the popularity/desirability of the girl in question.

I guess the part where you don't understand me is that I'm not trying to buy them, or their happiness with money.  In the case above where I bought her something a little bit expensive, I had already bought her out of the KTV overnight.  I just felt like shopping, and she did help me pick out something for myself as well.

So you had to ruin the fantasy for me even when i plead no to

Actually, I had done that once, but it wasn't because I felt like shopping, I was seduced into it even when I bought her out of the KTV. But i shrugged it in the beginning, but after a while I felt used and disgusted at my self. Cause that made it become materialistic and no chance for real passion or lust to bloom, since I allowed the money to cloud the relationship. Even knowing the girl will forget me after the next punter gifts his way to her pants.  Maybe I wish I had a real romantic relationship with a hottie and just trying to enact that fantasy on KTV girls. Am quite hypocritical I presume, but I can't clearly explain the feeling I have regarding this issue.

I guess its really a thread-line between being a pure service provider and a human being with emotions, and it depends how you tread it.

interesting tale (thanks for sharing your experience!) but I would not take the conclusion that there's "too much" to give, definitely not in any absolute sense.  

Key thing I see in your story is that you actually DID win her, she wanted you, but you inadvertently triggered her defenses by acting too close to the way guys act in a KTV.  I don't think that has anything to do with the amount of money you spent on her but more of a nonverbal communication about your intentions.  

For example I know a girl at the moment who I actively chose not to pursue.  Very beautiful, she has a long queue of admirers (both male and female), but I read her as high maintenance. Although I was kind to her in a couple of ways, I literally pushed her away and brushed her off a few times.  It drove her wild that I didn't want her ... with predictable consequences .  

I think it's not about the amount of money, it's about how it's given.  And to some extent it's also about the girl's history, which you can't know at the time.

Make your bloody mind up then - which is it? The elite or flash brash classless new monied or are you talking about the slums. I think you are making up a persona for yourself and keep forgetting what you are supposed to be.


My comment was not a race card, it was an observation relating to the protectionism and racist attitude to non hong kong people in hong kong. I would hasten to add that if you are an American born hongkie as I suspect you to be, you are on the receiving end of this as well, inside your elite /' not elite circle you pretend to exist in. You will also find that being a good honest open person of the world rather than being enslaved in the mindset of an ex small outpost of the British empire (both the US and Hong Kong included then) you are treated with significantly more openness and respect by the world over. You are clearly insulted personally by this thread because, having tried to show you are a high roller big spending man of the world, you now believe that you have been shown to be maybe a little insecure, shallow, and clearly not as successful in your life as you like to pretend to be. It back fired on you. If you are rich or poor; young or old, asian, european (apart from French) black green or gold coloured I would share a beer with you and be accepting of your culture, whether I am in your land or you are in mine. Regardless of the petty mindiness of some of the people in HK towards Gweilows (an insulting word to me, but I think it is funny) I don't really care because my life is good, and I find the country good. As for the people who think they can impede my happiness, I take great pleasure in at least attempting to fuck their wives and daughters. And cumming in their hair.


Your analogy still fails the logic test because it misses a fundamental error of judgement in expecting something sold at a higher price is better. Firstly, this is why the Beijing rich elite are being sold bottles of vinegar labelled as fine wine and gambei-ing them down. Higher price is no guarantee. Same with hookers and made more complex due to chemistry. The highly priced and rated Gaile I personally found to be uninspiring and mechanical. Sure she is cute, but she is going through the routine. One of my walk up regulars at under half the price is better looking than her, and give a better service all round. So you can not class buying people in the same way as buying a product. Just does not go, and the ultimate proof are the ugly russian bints of shit service who pop up on this DB some times and all over Wanchai. Expensive, ugle and shit. Still worth the extra money?


This never has been a personal attack. It is not defensive either. It is challenging your point of view for no other reason that a lot of it is not consistent, and I suspect stretching the truth a little. You can not with authority describe the mentality of people who are not you. All you can do is describe your perception of what they are doing as opposed to what they actually do. They stick a girl in a flat in the mid levels, tell everyone and her she has been bought it, fuck her, quietly kick her out or get her paying rent. That is most likely. If you are one of the friends, you hear and believe she has been bought it. You believe it. You tell everyone including us your perception. Have you been there when the deeds are handed over? Doubt it.


OK - So now I understand. You're a woman. Do you struggle with reverse parking as well?


Remember the old saying folks

A fool and his money is easily parted.   

[ Last edited by  akka at 22-8-2010 10:54 ]

"I take great pleasure in at least attempting to fuck their wives and daughters. And cumming in their hair."



Great line sir.

With regard to the original OP's question. My best answer is: to each their own, live and let live.

But on a side note. This thread reinforces why this forum is still so amazing to me.

As an ABC in NYC it is very difficult living under America's puritanical hypocrisy with regard to the sale of sex. Sex sells is inscribed on the doorways of every ad company on Madison Avenue yet selling sex can land you in a federal penitentiary. To freely discuss the nuances of mongering subculture in an articulate and respectful manner like most of the bros here do is still such a foreign concept.

Although I can't really post it on facebook, I am very proud to be a member.

I also think each to his own. I have never bought any gifts for a WG in my life. I tip them generously or at least I believe to do so but no gifts. Also due to the language barrier I have no interest in taking them out for dinner or something a like. I am actually happy that I do not need to be seen with the gal. That is the whole beauty of WGs in HK as it is so easy to go and visit them without creating much fuss or risk being recognized.
I understand and support Akka's point fully. However coming from overseas punting here is just so cheap that it is easy for us overseas visitors to buy some gifts or as in my case leave a good tip. I do not mean overpaying and things like computers, Tiffany bracelets are out of this equation no matter whether I can afford it or not because I just do not see any sense in it. I therefore also see some point in what Markreyes is saying.
I guess everyone should do what he feels comfortable with and if we can bring some joy being in a little gift, money or just being nice to a WG why not. I normally do not do repeat visits so gifts, tips or anything alike will not make a difference to me but maybe help the gal just a little bit or at least brighten up her day.

I really don't think you bother to read my posts before going off on your flaming attacks.

As I've said, I'm quite comfortable with my life, nor am I anywhere close to Li Ka Shing.  That's self-explanatory.

That being said, I don't think that because I can spend 10,000 HKD on a WG that I'm part of the ELITE, as you put it.  Since you say you live in Hong Kong, surely you know this.  

As for your whole race issue/observation.  I don't know why you even bring this up in this discussion.  YOU are clearly the one who feels a need to talk about it, for reasons I can understand but I'd rather not point them out.  You are quite wrong in your classification of me, as I don't fall into the ABC mold as you put it.

You keep harping on the fact that I'm trying to show I'm some high roller, which I clearly stated that I don't consider myself to be one.  You should try and talk about something I've actually said for a change, instead of harping on your assumptions and your idea of what I'm actually trying to say.

You really think that the price you pay isn't generally an indication of the quality of what you are buying?  Note I said generally, since there are exceptions.  If you don't believe this, well, you are really quite oblivious to the world around you.  I suppose you think that staying in the Victoria is better than staying in the Conrad then.  I salute you for being able to overcome adversity with optimism!

Actually, what you describe as "house buying" is very common, and I'd say accounts for the majority of people who say they bought a house for a mistress.  However, I know for fact that some of these stories are true.  And no, you aren't buying a house in the mid-levels for a WG/mistress.  But to say that not a few of the apartments in Hong Kong are not purchased by a man for his mistress, and she has the titles, then you don't know much at all.  In you put this setting into third world countries, the gap becomes even larger, as a moderate apartment would cost no more than 30-50k USD.  That's about as much as wall street guys in NYC spend on their girls in a year or two.

And If I feel like shopping I am automatically a woman? LOL.  You seriously have some issues.

What really sticks out in your posts is this arrogance that you think you're some handsome young Caucasian expat living in Hong Kong, and that you can charm all the local slutty one-night stand girls into your bed without a cent spent, and that all the locals here are fools that spend money on the girls that you bang for free.  

I don't live in Hong Kong, nor was I born there, but man, have a met a lot of people like this.  I'm not sure why this is, but I've never met a Chinese guy in London who thinks they are the total bomb and can fuck all the local UK girls for free and the henpecked locals are just idiots for taking shit from the girls that they can just fuck into submission.  

You sound almost like those guys who fly to Thailand to become English teachers.

I would suggest that you don't try to fall in love with a WG, nor should you assume that spending money on her guarantees any sort of return.  It doesn't.

In my experience, you'll end up 50/50, with some girls that appreciate it, with the others thinking you're a sucker.  Do it because you want to, because if you have expectations attached to it, you're likely to be disappointed.  This applies to both WGs and civvies btw.

So, where can I buy a decent apartment for $30K? In Sierra Leone or Kabul perhaps?

From direct experience, you can buy a decent apartment in Manila for that 30-50k USD.  1-1.5M PHP will buy you a studio in the major cities if you avoid the central business districts.  If you are willing to go 1 hour out of the major cities, that amount of money can buy you a moderate house.

When I was in Vietnam, you could find decent apartments for around that price.  When I mean decent, decent for a mistress or girlfriend.  I'm not sure if you would like to live there full-time yourself, although I've seen this as well.

Bangkok, it's a little bit harder, but still possible.  You will find a lot more options if you move farther away from Bangkok though, where your money will stretch farther.  1-1.5M baht goes pretty far out of Bangkok.  You can build a pretty nice brand new house in Chiang Rai for less than 2M.

Sierra Leone and Kabul, well, I have no direct knowledge of the area, but I imagine it would be far cheaper.  Why don't you do some research and let us know?

I would not categorize it as love, but rather as infatuation, and that is part of us being human beings. Haven't you met a WG that blew your mind and wished you she was just a civvi that you are dating? I know that this kind of infatuation is quite dangerous, but it is what gets me high, cause of things I have missed in my younger days. And i have been trying to compensate that feeling through the KTV WGs. Is it sane, I don't know, but I dare not try to justify it and will admit it is just a hypocritical representation of a deep down messed up feelings.

As for spending money for returns, that is the point I tried to highlight by telling my story, and that was the point where I changed my philosophy. We as part of the society, must admit that men always expect returns from WGs, cause we think that is exactly the same as when you buy their service, that they will do anything for money.

And nowadays I believe that this thinking is wrong, WGs are human beings, they still have feelings. And if it appears that they will do anything for money, that is just a prove of how deep the wound in that WG has become, deprivation of hope and how morally raped she became. Normal or just starting WGs mostly have their pride and still hope to return to what the society perceive as "respectful life".

For me treating them nice just means I treat them with respect and be friendly to them. I don't usually give gifts and I only tip if I have repeated with the WG before and have built a good rapport, even then I only do so if the session was really goo.

I especially don't tip if the WG expects it, that would defeat the purpose, she can change her regular rate if she expects more.

For most bros that lavish the WGs with expensive gifts, it is nice that you treat them well and maybe most of you are just being nice and aren't showing off but at the same what would most if the recipient WGs think? That's more important. I would think most cases it paints a target on your back. Do they think they just found a potential sugar daddy? Even if money doesn't mean much to me, it means a lot to WGs, after all they are selling their bodies for it. $14,000 gift if I was a smart WG, I would just sell it and save the money, that's 10 or more punters I would not have to be with.

To each your own, I just don't like the chance of having a bullseye on me.  Plus if a WG is nice to me at least there is more of a chance that is genuine then if I suspectit is because I gave her something.

Last time I will respond because I am bored now. I accept that you are unique, and comfortable in your society. I applaud that you do not live in a society where the lady members are not sexual deviants who like and enjoy sex. I appreciate your eloquent observations about me, and only hope i can live down to them. Most of all, you have given me a good laugh so well played.

And as for me being a lothario white stud? You could not be further from the truth. Hot handsome stud I am not, and never have been. I am not a teacher in thailand either and do not aspire to be so.

As for the rest of your defensive statements, its a case of caveat emptor dear chap.

[ Last edited by  akka at 22-8-2010 18:35 ]