Subject: Women Who Want to Want
Marsupial (Saint Marsupial)
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Post at 2-12-2009 15:16  Profile P.M. 
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Women Who Want to Want

What follows is a long and very interesting discussion about female sexual desire from a recent online NYTimes article. If you have any interest in what goes on in a woman's head, it's a must read.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/2 ... &pagewanted=all




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twiceAweek
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Post at 2-12-2009 15:18  Profile P.M. 
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Reply #1 Marsupial's post

I haven't read this artical but I don't believe any man will ever understand what goes on in a woman's head
no matter what's been written !!!  
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Marsupial (Saint Marsupial)
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Post at 2-12-2009 15:24  Profile P.M. 
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Reply #2 twiceAweek's post

I'm not sure I even understand what goes on in a man's head - see my reply to Dasani's COF thread in the chat section.

The article doesn't reach any definitive conclusions, but it does raise some interesting points. I do realize tho that not many members will bother to read it - it is rather long.




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DArtagnan (unofficial Mayor of the Forum)
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Post at 2-12-2009 18:01  Profile P.M. 
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Reply #3 Marsupial's post

Here's my attempt at a summary:-

... there's a lot of disagreement about whether lack of desire is a problem or not ...
... there's a lot of disagreement about what constitutes a sexual disorder and what is just plain normal ...

AND

If you want better sex,
  practice mindfulness meditation
  practice body awareness
  and do yoga

... and that last bit is something I wholeheartedly agree with.  
It works, bros, not just for women who want to want!!





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Froddo
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Post at 2-12-2009 22:03  Profile P.M. 
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Reply #1 Marsupial's post

I really tried to read the article Mars, I really did, but God it just drones on and on without getting to the point. I do know I now have quite a distaste for raisins.

If this is what defines a woman I feel sorry for them. I suspect the "therapist" is not really helping these poor lost souls.
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Marsupial (Saint Marsupial)
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Post at 2-12-2009 22:27  Profile P.M. 
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Reply #5 Froddo's post

Really?  If a bit wordy, I thought the article was quite well argued - but then, that could describe me as well    or so I like to flatter myself.

What I found interesting is Basson's theory that "responsive/triggered' desire is the norm in women, and that women who feel no desire are actually physically responding to sex - as measured by increased blood flow to the vagina - but do not let themselves respond emotionally to the physical stimulation. This contrasts with male desire which is lust driven. I quote:

"All of this might seem awfully abstract, but Basson’s lesson for women, which has been distilled by sex therapists into three words, “desire follows arousal,” is a real rearrangement of expectation and a reweighting of sexual theory. The model with swollen red lips gazing out with molten need from the billboard or the MTV dancer pumping her half-covered hips at the camera — these icons in heat embody a cultural standard. And though some women, according to Basson, do feel such craving some of the time — at the beginning of a new relationship, for example, or possibly at a certain point in the menstrual cycle — and though a few women may sense such electricity surging regularly through them, these images, she suggests, are largely illusory ideals. More likely for most women, Basson argues, the start of plenty — and maybe the great majority — of sexual encounters is defined not by heat but by slight warmth or flat neutrality. And there’s nothing wrong with this, she says, nothing disordered."




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JckJr
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Post at 3-12-2009 00:53  Profile P.M. 
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Reply #6 Marsupial's post

1. Group therapy sessions for women despairing of low sexual desire ("I want to feel horny").

2. Low sexual desire is a mental disorder (HSDD).

3. People who study the libido of rats ( ).

Only in America.
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Marsupial (Saint Marsupial)
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Post at 3-12-2009 01:01  Profile P.M. 
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Reply #7 JckJr's post

You obviously didn't read any further than the 1st few paragraphs.




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JckJr
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Post at 3-12-2009 01:27  Profile P.M. 
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Reply #8 Marsupial's post

Oh I did but I can't say I fully understood it all, and these for me are the strongest impressions from the article.
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Marsupial (Saint Marsupial)
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Post at 3-12-2009 02:08  Profile P.M. 
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Reply #9 JckJr's post

Everything you mentioned in your post #7 is taken from the first 9 sentences of the article - not much more than 1 paragraph.




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TheButler
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Post at 3-12-2009 02:34  Profile P.M. 
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QUOTE:
Originally posted by Marsupial at 2-12-2009 22:27
More likely for most women, Basson argues, the start of plenty — and maybe the great majority — of sexual encounters is defined not by heat but by slight warmth or flat neutrality. And there’s nothing wrong with this, she says, nothing disordered."

So all my girlfriends and WGs were SUPPOSED to just be laying there like a dead fish?!

And I'm supposed to take this lying down??!!    (irony intended   )


I have wondered over the years about the tenor of my different relationships; how some were eased into over time versus the girls that jumped me in the office as fast as they could.  I resist the attempts to define 'normal' in terms that make people feel a need to conform to something and I would argue that discussions like this are better for expanding our tolerance for others and their foibles.




I didn't do it.  Really I didn't.
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DArtagnan (unofficial Mayor of the Forum)
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Post at 3-12-2009 09:00  Profile P.M. 
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Reply #11 TheButler's post

notice the quote begins "the start of ..."

it doesn't mean she doesn't get hot during sex.  

Besson is saying rather that putting desire ahead of arousal is putting the cart before the horse - that for women sex often starts with a state of physical arousal without feeling desire.  What happens next is up to her and her partner.  It means you shouldn't be surprised or disappointed if she's less lustful than you are at the start.




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JckJr
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Post at 3-12-2009 10:29  Profile P.M. 
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Reply #10 Marsupial's post

And that means I did not read the rest of the article? Surely not. Does it suggest that I did not read the rest of the article? Only if one accepts a narrow and inaccurate presumption. Btw, if you want to be precise - the quote "I want to feel horny" is taken from the end of para 7.  

I have always been blown away by the fact that the luxury to undertake serious non-biased academic research into a wide range of topics exist in the developed world. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with it, simply that I continue to be amazed by it. This article reinforces this impression right off the bat.
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JckJr
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Post at 3-12-2009 10:52  Profile P.M. 
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Reply #12 DArtagnan's post

Even before the stage of physical arousal, Besson says that the woman has to first make the decision to have sex in order to have true sexual desire (I'm paraphrasing here). I guess this may either be a conscious or unconscious decision. How a woman makes this decision is the puzzling part. I'm going to out to grab a box of raisins to find out.

But for most WG, I'd imagine commercial sex would be devoid of any genuine sexual desire on their part.
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Marsupial (Saint Marsupial)
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Post at 3-12-2009 11:11  Profile P.M. 
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Basson's theory does shed light on some of my own experiences. For instance, the Taiwanese girl who I frequently mention - the one who would regularly have 8-10 intense orgasms every time we made love - never, in our decade-long affair, initiated sex. She would always respond enthusiastically, but never seemed interested unless first aroused.

There was another girl - a white chick who I had an affair with before coming out to Asia all those many years ago - who never had an orgasm. Whenever I managed to maneuver her into bed, she would respond physically and get wet, but she never seemed to take any pleasure from foreplay or fucking. It's like there was a circuit breaker left open somewhere between her body and those areas of the mind responsible for experiencing pleasure.

But then, I have known girls who were aggressively sexual, so Basson's theory doesn't always apply, as she herself admits. However, it could be the norm, and certainly is different from the way men experience desire. Then again, reproduction requires aggressive male sexuality; we're all just tools in the hands of our DNA.




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DArtagnan (unofficial Mayor of the Forum)
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Post at 3-12-2009 16:39  Profile P.M. 
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Reply #15 Marsupial's post

testosterone levels play a big part.  

I heard a talk by a therapist once, who pointed out that both men and women have testosterone, and everyone has a different amount.  She got herself tested and discovered herself to have a very low level of testosterone - which of course made her a perfect candidate for an experiment.  She had herself injected with a large dose of testosterone and discovered (for the first time in her life) what it actually feels like to lust after sex.  

Apparently when a couple first meet and hook up, the level of testosterone in their bodies is boosted, for approximately three months.  Then it goes back to normal levels.  

Basically, some want it more than others.  And how much they want it varies depending on hormonal activity (duh, like we needed a scientist to point THAT one out!).




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DArtagnan (unofficial Mayor of the Forum)
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Post at 3-12-2009 16:44  Profile P.M. 
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QUOTE:
Originally posted by JckJr at 3-12-2009 10:52
... But for most WG, I'd imagine commercial sex would be devoid of any genuine sexual desire on their part. ...

My own view is they kind of turn it on and off.  

One of siklong's reports relates an incident where he visited a girl late in the day (last customer) and she was extremely frustrated from her clients cumming too quickly and easily so she never got off herself.  Until our senior bro helped out that is

I've had girls who definitely seemed to make a decision to get into it, and switched from a routine to being more self-absorbed, in mid-visit.  

Though it does stand to reason they're not doing it primarily for pleasure or sexual gratification - it's a job, with money and lifestyle as the primary payoffs - but one of the perks is they can live out their desire if they choose to.




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Froddo
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Post at 3-12-2009 21:44  Profile P.M. 
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Reply #15 Marsupial's post

I have an auto cynascism for the types of theories in such articles. The human animal is too complex to pin down to a couple of options. The one thing I do believe true is that the fundamental seat of erotica is in our brain, not our dick or vagina.  
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