Gents,

I'm probably asking the most absurd question on this board however i have absolutely zero knowledge of the job market in Hong Kong and mainland China so at this moment, any insight would be greatly appreciated.

A FRIEND of mine, ahmm... not me... is a Cisco certified network professional (CCNP), he has over 8 years experience in the networking field and currently employed as an engineer at a telecom service provider firm. Pay is great, job is great, nothing to complain about here but ultimately he see's a life for himself in Asia - maybe it's for the pooning or the A++ wonton noodles but who cares. Questions he has Are:

- With the above qualifications and certification would he be able to live comfortably in Hong Kong or mainland China?
- How is the job market now in Asia?
- Is consulting a viable option in?
- Do Asian firms prefer oversea candidates?
- What are the working hours like in Asia? 9-5 Mondays to Fridays?

Much thanks in advance

I can comment that working hours in Asia is NOT 9-5 Monday to Friday.  Your friend should be thinking USA or Germany

Hong Kong working hours are Monday-Friday and Saturday mornings (at the very least).

Some broad opinions

- With the above qualifications and certification would he be able to live comfortably in Hong Kong or mainland China?
Being CCNP is not enough - unless he has specialised skills, such as project management, or proven technical sales skills, it'll be really hard for him to compete with someone who speaks several local languages, who is willing to work day and night to learn new tech.  It would work in his favour if he has proven management skills and also has knowledge of newly emerging tech that might not be rolled out here yet.  

- How is the job market now in Asia?
It's been worse, and has been better.  Salaries are generally robust, but it's by no means an employees market.  

- Is consulting a viable option in?
Employers very much prefer to hire full-time, and prefer to hire locals (who don't need a Work Visa, don't ask for living expenses, and who speak local languages).  However, if someone has unique skills that are rare in the World, there are always a limited number of consulting opportunities.  
But the market for consulting is nowhere near as well developed in Asia as it is in Europe or USA.  There are very few employment agencies that deal with contract or consulting work, and the T&C need to be negotiated case by case as there are few precedents to draw on.  
Again, it depends on having niche qualifications, and staying specialised in a narrow field that is a) mission critical but b) doesn't have enough work in any one company to justify a full-time role.

- Do Asian firms prefer oversea candidates?
Are you kidding me?  If they can possibly hire local they will.  You have a much stronger possibility of being employed by a multinational, since their management are already comfortable with visa requirements and may be fed up with dealing with a local culture that they don't understand and may be struggling with.  But any employer will only ever consider an overseas candidate for a role they've already tried to fill locally and failed, so you start with a built-in handicap.  If they don't do so for practical reasons, they must do so to comply with employment legislation.  

- What are the working hours like in Asia? 9-5 Mondays to Fridays?
Actually much closer to 5-9 than 9-5.  
With Saturdays and sometimes Sundays thrown in
... especially if travel is involved, which is highly likely in the sort of role that foreigners may be considered for.  
Oh, and the statutory minimum Annual Leave in Hong Kong is only 7 days per year ... in addition to the national Holidays that is, which are one day at a time.  Anything above that has to be negotiated and justified.  

That said, if I haven't put you off, go for it.  

But be aware that it won't be a cushy number to sell yourself, and it won't be a cushy number to justify the premium you have to charge ... because even if you accept a local package at a local salary, you will still be homesick and wanting to make enough to pay for an intercontinental flight at least once a year.  

All things considered, you may decide it's worth it.  Make the play.  Just don't burn any bridges before you've got a contract.

I would also add that if the holiday is on a Thursday (for example) and you think there will be a long 4 day weekend, think again.  They will often use a weekend day to replace the missed Friday.

Just get the contract as iron-clad as you can, and do not assume anything, no matter how trivial it might seem.

China mainland working hours are what your company says they are. For your kind of work, consider 11 hour days, 5 days a week, with many Saturdays mandatory. No PTO, only government approved/mandated holidays.

question your friend has to ask is WHY would asia want to hire your friend?  If there is no discernable difference to set him apart....there is no draw to hire him.

I have friends who went back to asia after many years away....a handful can not adjust to the culture abroad.  Just saying its not so easy for many.

wow. i thought walll street has long hours. you guys in HK are way worse.

Woah. That's nuts. I didn't know hours where that crazy in Asia. That's almost a deal breaker right there. Well maybe the pay too. Thanks for the input

Hours may be long, but it doesn't feel so bad because everyone works long hours. You will not find it difficult at all to find people to eat dinner with you after 9pm. I don't know where you come from, but if you want to get a sense of the number of hours people in Asia are willing to work, go check out your local Asian-owned business. I am sure the majority work crazy hours, that is their primary business advantage...the willingness to work long hours.

You have to ask yourself, then why the hell are there so many expats in HK? Well, if they manage to stay and work hard for at least 5 years, then their compensation becomes quite comfortable. And it is especially so for the majority who are non-American citizens as they are not taxed by their government on income earned outside their home country. They are only responsible for paying the low HK salaries tax (approx 15%) and no other taxes. So though you may earn more back home, but your take total take home pay may be less because of your high salaries taxes back home.

They work long hours because there isn't much else to do, and it is so fucking hot during the day, no one wants to go out until after 10pm.

Keep in mind that working in HK and working on the mainland are not the same thing at all.

you bring up the idea expats, now do those guys work the same hours as locals? Are they paid HKD or of their country of origin? At this point I think my friend is done with the idea of making a life in Asia however I do find everything said above to be quite an interesting read. He just assumed Hong Kong being first world would have much the same working hours/conditions as you would expect in States/Europe.

Can anyone explain how the housing market works in Hong Kong? I understand Apartments there are insanely expensive, someone even told me it was into the millions(USD) for a small sized place (500 sq feet)? I don't understand how anyone can afford to live in Hong Kong, even by North American standards that's absurd!! Factor in food, daily expenses, clothing into the equation and it's just ludicrous.

Edit:

Just thought of something. How the hell do some of you punt so much?? HAHAHA. I mean, when i pull in 6/7 day weeks i just feel like i wana just chill at home and veg out what remaining weekend i have left. Maybe I'm not use to the high work hours but punting will probably be the last thing on my mind if i had to slam 6 day weeks, 10+ hour shifts.

[ Last edited by  WaterbottleS at 18-4-2013 10:19 ]

That would make me shift my hours, not work more of them!


Exactly. No labor or safety standards at all on the mainland. Force people to sign away what few employment "rights" exist or else you will never be promoted. And so on.

You've seen how hot the girls are, right?!

I am sure some will chime in with deeper insight.   Everything is relative.  It depends where do you come from to compare?

Compared from where I am, HK real estate is expensive. I think living expensive is not too bad at all ....food is afforable.  Public transportation is great & cheap too.  Clothes shopping is tougher in HK.

I asked a similiar question once in another thread and even asked a few friends for advice. Lets just say if you banked 1 mil hkd a year... you would be pretty comfortable overall there.  Personally I have issues with the humidity, pollution and brutal hours nature of work there.

I have a friend who works in one of the bigger banks in America, he transferred over to Japan "to try" and he made a few extra bucks.  He was sick of it and then tried HK, he fell in love for he is a Cantonese ABC, speaks the language and (in his words) "finally found his place"  Tripled his salary within 4 years, started making contacts in China, 10Xs his salary now.  Bought a flat for roughly 30 million HKD in one of the nicer areas and married a local girl.  Fate has been nice to him.  But he's a rarity.  I have a few more friends who travel to HK for work.  3 months a year, some for 1 week, and I also know a white guy who has a 3 year contract to work in HK via a US company paying him US rates and healthcare but he can't see his Chinese wife here in NY for months at a time.  

IMHO, good jobs are few, opportunities are even less but dreams of living there are tremendous! LOL, including me.

why is his salary 10x now?  Did he switch and move to a mainland bank? We are talking salary right? not contract or independent work on the side

I didn't want to get into details but he works at a bank but he isn't a teller, LOL.  But contracts made my them usually means heavy commissions.  He sets up contracts between different countries and businesses.  His money is made through heavy commissions and he doesn't have contracts set in stone to work for a particular bank anymore.  Mind you he is Ivy League material.  Not just any kid who graduated grad school.

Perhaps look at some of the international employment agencies that include china in their ambit.

I have had a few approaches from Hays who work out of HK.

There are a few others.

Teltel

try   http://www.seek.com.au/job/24391486?tracking=JMC-000038

may be what you are looking for

teltel

Expats have a reputation as not working as long hours as locals, but for many the hours are still quite long.

Back to the original questions, D'Art gave good responses, but I wanted to add one more point, which is language. If your friend speaks the local Asian language this is a huge help. If not, they will hire local (cheaper).

Regarding housing, yes it is fucking insane. I have friends that are paying almost $2000 USD for a flat that is under 600 sq/ft on the Kowloon side.

Transportation is very efficient and since you probably won't have a car, you save on car payments & insurance which can be quite high in the US.

People told me other things were cheaper in HK, but I think most of those days are gone. McDonalds is cheaper here and if you eat very local, it is pretty cheap, but otherwise I find food as expensive or more than the US, especially if you want to buy imported groceries.

Clothes can be a challenge depending on your size.

Of course, there are other options like Thailand or Taiwan. Neither will pay as good as HK probably, but the cost of living can be significantly lower.