So copped a pretty heft foreigner tax while buying some fruit today, but I let it slide as I wasn't expecting it, but also due to some uncertainty as to the rules of engagement with bargaining. I guess the other factor is I wasn't sure of fruit prices here, and maybe some of the fruits were out of season thus more expensive. But on second thought no, as you wouldn't have a streetside vendor selling them if this were the case. In Thailand, you don't get loud and aggressive with vendors, you politely haggle them down. I'm not so sure this is the case in China, where I've seen and heard people get quite vocal.

Purchased 7 apricots and a mid size bunch of grapes. Was expecting to pay a bit more than the locals, my guestimate was 30RMB. She sees the 50RMB note in my wallet and indicates the price is 50RMB. I know she's taking the piss, the odds of the price conveniently being 50RMB (when she just weighed everything to calculate price) is approaching zero. I argue with her politely for about 30 seconds, indicating my disapproval at the price. She doesn't budge, and I should have just put the fruit back and walked. But I'm feeling a bit sick at the moment, so just wanted to get my shopping over with. My question is, is it standard practice to get loud with vendors when you know they're taking the piss, raise your voice and such? I certainly felt like doing this, wasn't impressed (don't mind a little surcharge, but when it's double..). I was also taken off guard, as in other countries I'm used to the innocent old ladies that can't speak English giving a fair price. My guess is price should have been 20-25RMB.

On the way back to my hotel I saw another fruit stand, and picked up some bananas. For 10RMB I got a huge bunch of bananas, weighed at least as much as my other purchase combined. Of course in future I'll be better prepared, have my phone ready to punch numbers (prices) out for negotiations. My main question here, is whether it's acceptable to get loud (not necessarily aggressive, but perhaps wave your arms around a bit) when bargaining? Or is this not likely to work in your favour?

To survive in China, you need to get LOUD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Otherwise China ppl will take advantage of foreigners.

I get pissy and agressive all the time. I shout and scold every fucka who tried to fucks with me. (of course appropriately when you know they are trying to cheat/con me).
Only if you roll hard, you get things done in China.
My China GF is more fierce than me!!! I learned this from her.

But in HK, I am very passive. The system is there, ppl do their own thing, no need to go over board.

when you smell a rat, it usually is
i stand firm, whenever they quote a price, i strike at half and work my way up to 3/4 of the original quote
no exceptions
they are sharks and will take advantage of you at EVERY opportunity!
whenever i do this, i'm ALWAYS prepared to walk away
foreigners will always stand out like dog balls, no matter how hard you try to blend in, they smell you a mile away

good luck!

I tend to be a much tougher bargainer... start at 30% of the quoted in price in most places.  I work my way up to 50% maximum (+/- the nearest whole number).  Saved me lots of money especially when I go travelling!

I find walking away is a VERY effective strategy:  Bargain for a while, look serious, then when they don't shift, turn regretfully and start walking - 9 times out of 10 they capitulate and drop their price.  

Another strategy I saw once was invented by a friend of mine.  He was haggling for a selection of paintings he liked, and the guy was just stringing out the time.  The vendor had nothing to lose by taking a long time and knew my friend wanted to get away ...
So my friend simply started REDUCING his bid.  This of course is a nono of haggling etiquette, and the vendor called 'foul' - so my friend explained he was wasting his time and was no longer willing to pay his earlier bid, and the offer would reduce from now on.  The vendor quickly agreed the offered price!  

Bottom line is
a) stay good natured - if you can get the vendor to laugh somehow, it always lowers the price
b) know your price and be willing to walk
c) do NOT aim for the mid-point, e.g. if he reduces by increments of 10, you are perfectly entitled to increase increments of 5 (or less)

oh, and NEVER show your wallet (and especially not its contents) until after a price is agreed

Agreed.. plus d) Always have some smaller-denomination notes handy.  Some less honest vendors will claim not to have enough change if you're forking out huge bills (eg if you're using 100RMB notes to pay for a 15RMB item, they can say 'I only have 70 in change and give you that, saying you can have two of that item instead - without giving your 100RMB note back).

Some of the best bargainers I've encountered were in the Middle East - specifically, Istanbul in their flea markets.  I went there 15 years ago and in those days you had to expect to pay 5% at most of their initial price quoted, otherwise you'd just be a sucker.  This was in the days when becoming a Turkish lira millionaire only took US$1.60-1.70.

man, I didn't even know fruits are for bargain!!    I know its cultural but bargaining can be a bit tiresome for me.

I watched an extended haggling with a Moroccan T-shirt vendor.  He started us$15 per shirt, and the price dropped to around $3 per shirt over about 20 min of walking around sight-seeing. At the end the guy was really open and even told us his cost was 80 cents!

Well caught a bicycle rickshaw the other day, price started at 50RMB, I said not more than 30RMB so the guy rode off. Then another nearby said he'd do it for 30RMB. I knew the taxi would be < 15RMB (maybe even 10), but I didn't know if the taxi would pull the same shit and not use the meter, so even though there was a taxi right there, I just couldn't be bothered and went with the 30RMB.. figuring also that I was doing the guy a favour with his inflated price, and that he probably needed it more than the taxi. Anyway rickshaw takes me to the wrong place initially despite me telling him repeatedly I'm pretty sure it's that way etc, as we're setting off for the correct place I give him 30RMB to make it obvious that's all he's getting, the place he should have taken me to was actually closer than where he took me. We get there, and I give him 5RMB extra, just in case it was an innocent mistake on his part, keep in mind the trip itself would probably be 10RMB all up for a local. He starts getting quite aggravated, suggesting 20RMB. I think he was expecting a double fare lol. Had it been daylight I would have kept the 5RMB and just walked, but I didn't feel like a scene, was night and not many people about - he still looked well pissed so I was a bit on my guard as it was.

So I'm pretty disillusioned with vendors at this point, but then had the complete opposite experience. Saw a fruit vendor late at night, ask price in advance for peaches, he says 16RMB/kg. He picks three for me, inspecting each one as he goes, one is a bit battered looking and he gives me the 'it's no good' look and gets another one. Weighs them, 6RMB. I give him 6RMB, and 2RMB extra. Why? Because no bullshit with the price is a welcome change. Some might say I'm just giving him the impression foreigners are flush with cash and give money away, but I don't mind a small foreigner tax, just not when they're taking the piss. Maybe I shouldn't do this anyway, perhaps it does just serve to encourage bad habits.. Anyway he looks at the tip and hands it back, pointing to calculator, only 6. Lol, I give it back and say no problem. He looks at me incredulously, as if to say wtf are doing giving me extra. Then with a big smile he goes off and picks some random extra fruits and puts them in my bag, then shakes my hand haha. Anyway this is more the experience I'd heard about from friends (when getting bike fixed etc), why I was so unprepared when I first got ripped off. Been a while since I've had someone so appreciative of a tip, and it was a tiny tip at that. Last time I had this was a motorbike taxi, gave him what would have been equivalent of a 50c tip, big smile and he yelled out 'I love you' as I was walking back into hotel LOL. That was some funny shit. He didn't speak English, but had obviously picked up that phrase from somewhere.

Yes, even when in China it speaks a lot about ourselves if we do have empathy when bargaining - or indeed in just going about in our daily lives.

Never mind what the "locals" practice - being loud, shouting when haggling and generally just being obnoxious. They go about doing that as it IS just the regular thing to do for them.  But a foreigner doing so can get singled out by the local counter-party as having unacceptable behaviour - and in some instances will even result in the vendor actually NOT willing to sell the item to you - Chinese pride and all that.

I have even seen where such an encounter results in actual arguments and even threats of violence - as the local vendor knows that the foreigner ain't got what it takes by way of "back-up" - something that locals are not ever sure about when dealing with another local.

So I'd suggest that we do our part to NOT perpetuate the image of the "Ugly xxxxxxxx" - as a foreigner in China, we are already at a disadvantage, lets not make it worse for the rest of us by "turning off" the locals.  Like I said, what may be acceptable behaviour between Chinese is many times taken as an affront when practiced by a foreigner.

Just my POV

SEAJ

bargaining is an ART in china.
i suck at bargaining but getting better.

last month, i bought a vase in Zhongshan.

quoted price was RMB 8,ooo.
a 1.8m huge vase. Painted with 100 virgin boys. For fengshui purposes.

i asked for discount, and was rejected with some bullshit abt the vase is from some ancient dynasty.
i turned and walked off.
the boss then pulled me back and offered RMB 6,ooo.
i was grinning, thinking to myself, all i did was turn around and walked 3 steps and i get RMB 2,ooo discount, enough for a KTV model FS session.

i was about to take out my wallet, when my PRC driver, who was standing behind me all this time, dragged me away, and shouted at the boss "RMB 5oo, take it or leave it~!!!"

I was about to tell my driver to STFU..
when the boss cursed something in his dialect, then replied..
"RMB 8oo, take it or leave it..."

It's easy to get paranoid about haggling, and any of the arguments you present are excellent food for fear ... the truth is far from that bad though.  

Example.
I was once on a tourist trip - a boat trip down the Yangtze through the Three Gorges - I and my friends were the only caucasians in a boat full of Chinese.  We had one Chinese guy sharing our room, who turned out to be an officer in the PLA.  Very nice guy, polite and unassuming.  

Anyway, everyone in the boat took a side trip one day, involving some speedboat rides and hiking along the side of a tributary.  And vendors were selling stuff all along the route ...

My friends and I bought a load of Jade balls, paying Y10 per ball ... and later noticed that the Chinese who came with us were proud to be paying Y20 for the same balls ...

And getting back to the boat, we met our officer friend, who showed us a carved figure he'd bought ... and he confessed he'd paid way too much because it was a unique piece carved of wood.  Turned out - round the next bend - there was a row of stalls selling exactly the same 'unique' piece ... and of course it wasn't made of wood either ...

Goes to show, if you are awake, and practice the basics, you shouldn't assume you're getting a worse deal than locals do.  I guess in our example it worked in our favour: it's almost like the vendors saw us as marginal revenue and were willing to cut us a deal, while they tried to milk the Chinese tourists for every cent.  

Now, put me in a wet market, I get slayed every time   But even there you can find a trick: I take my cute younger son with me, and he gets showered with stuff from the ladies ...

Know your strengths.  Play to them.

I go in with a set figure in my head, I don't bother haggling and shouting with them.. My usual exchange goes something like this:\
How much?
100rmb
What?! That's far too expensive, 20rmb..
Noway! it's made from diamonds and gold!
*start walking away*
ok ok ok 20rmb

Kind of annoying that I actually have to do this though, wish everything just had a set price.