WG economics:

I’ve searched the threads for hints as to WG economics, but have found none. As such, I thought I’d start a post on the economics of being a WG. The genesis of the questions asked here are out of genuine curiosity, namely: how much money can a WG make in Macau over the course of a set-time period (such as one year)?

On occasion I have tried to ask questions to WGs about their total compensation, but this has been met with very limited success due to language barriers. I usually am often misunderstood and their response is often nothing more than quoting the price of the session. However, one WG at D1 has indicated to me that she typically makes between HKD 3,000 to 4,000 per day. I assume this includes any additional tips punters might give her. Part of me feels like this is likely overstated, but then again, over the course of a 12-hour shift she could possibly see enough punters for this to be realistic.

So that brings me to a series of questions…


1) How are WGs compensated?

Is it a flat fee on a per-punter basis (regardless of how many punters they see during their shift)?

Do they earn an incrementally higher fee per-punter as the day goes on (in other words do they have minimum quota of punters?) and if they see more than the minimum number of punters do they receive a greater portion of the fee paid by the punter?

If there isn’t a fee split between the WG and the house, is there any other method by which they would be compensated? For instance, is it possible that there are some establishments that pay a pre-determined “salary” to the WG regardless of how many punters she sees on any given day?


2) Do WGs have to “pay” a fee to the house to work there?

This might not necessarily be an obvious out-of-pocket amount. However, do the houses charge the WGs for use of the rooms, laundry of the sheets / towels, etc.? Perhaps if this “fee” does exist, the WG never physically hands over $, but rather this comes out of the cut the house keeps from the session fees paid by punters.

Alternatively, are WGs subject to a minimum number of punters they are expected to see in a day and if they don’t hit this quota then perhaps their earnings are diminished or the fees they have to “pay” are increased?


3) What is the fee split?

Assuming WGs are given a certain percentage of the session fee paid by a punter, what is the split? Is it likely to be a fairly even 50/50 split between the WG and the house, or is the split decidedly in the houses favor (e.g. 75% to house / 25% to WG)? How does this split vary from establishment to establishment? Are there certain establishments that are favored by the WGs because they let the girl keep a greater portion of the fee?

Let’s consider a hypothetical… the per session fee at D1 and Grand Emperor sauna are similar (about 1,600 at each for non-models, although 90 minutes at D1 vs. 60 minutes at GE). However, the overhead expenses at Grand Emperor sauna are most likely much higher than the costs to run D1 given the relative quality of the product and extensive amenities offered. With this in mind, would it be likely that Grand Emperor sauna keeps a greater percentage of the punter’s session fee due to their higher cost structure (resulting in the girl receiving a smaller percentage of the fee)?


What about tips?

I tend to be generous and believe I tip WGs at a higher rate than many punters. For instance, if the fee is 1,5xx, I usually tip 500, or slightly greater than a 30% tip. Naturally, if all WGs received tips like this, I think most would be earning in excess of HKD 3,000 per day from tips alone. How much can a standard WG expect to earn in tips (either on a per-punter or per-day basis)?

Do WGs at full-service saunas receive fewer tips than WGs at places like D1? My guess is “yes” because punters at full-service saunas do not carry their wallets with them during the session while punters at places like D1 have their wallets with them and perhaps are more likely to tip after a great session and because ready money is at hand.


Any thoughts / insights would be welcome.

First off, I would say that if you are worried about the economics, you are sort of in the wrong sport.  All forms of adult entertainment (especially what Western people would call "sin" entertainment, from booze and smokes to gambling and hookers) is all heavily over priced specifically because we are, for the most part, willing to overpay for the product.   So first andforemost, you have to remember that in almost all circumstances (except maybe a low price walk up) you are overpaying dramatically for the product you are receiving.

Second, you have to remember that much of what goes on is done either illegally or in forms of marginal legality (everything from girls from PRC "working" on tourist visa, to pimps and human trafficking).  When something is lucrative (because of my first point) and likely to avoid taxation (see this point), you are likely to see people in there trying to profit off the work of others.

The basics for Macau sauna girls (based on reports here and other places) is pay per punt, girls getting about $500 per (with models and other "upper" girls getting more, upwards to $700 or $800 by some reports).  What that means is that your $500 tip would be about a 100% tip, which would make them very happy.  However, it you are putting that tip on your final bill on the way out the door, I doubt that the girl sees more than her ratio of it, if at all.  Most of the wise bros here tend to bring some (well hidden) cash money for tipping the girls directly, as it is the only way to even have a chance that they actually get what you are giving.

Finally, the most important part:  The question should be if the time you spend with the girl is worth the money you are spending, and if you are willing to accept the idea that the girl likely isn't making even half of what you are paying.  As long as you can answer yes to both of the questions, I would say don't worry about the split, don't worry about the economics, and worry more about enjoying the (somewhat expensive) services.  You will feel much better!

Canuck - thanks for the information. It is very helpful and appreciated.

I'm not "worried" about WG economics in the sense that I think they're too high. This is a big boys game and I wouldn't be playing it if I didn't have the means. My questions stem from nothing more than curiosity as to what the earnings power of a WG in Macau might be. You've set me on the right course for coming to a number. Thanks!

HJF

Moving this to the Chat section; more appropriate for this topic.

i think homer's interest is one we all share.  it's not that he's "worried" about the economics.  it's like any other hobby: the more we know about it, the more interesting it gets.  And as always, more perfect informations creates more efficient markets (the consumer wins).

First, please don't tip 500HKD!  When I started mongering ten years ago, I used to do this because it seemed chintzy to tip in multiple notes (like tipping 3 washingtons instead of one lincoln).  At Darling, a typical hk local might give 200 mop for average service, or 300mop if he fancies her.  This applies to both nonmodels and models.  Many mainlanders don't tip at all.

At least at Darling, if the girl doesn't get picked, she doesn't get paid.  There is no "base salary."  I believe they do pay a nominal laundry cost for their costumes.  Interestingly, the models are not issued company costumes of the "ping tai" (nonmodels) but rather go to zhuhai to pick out their own from specialty shops (think frederick's of hollywood).  Given their earning potential, their apartment costs are quite affordable.  I've heard $3000 MOP per month for a small apartment, which they usually share with one other girl.

To homer's question regarding increasing profit fraction after a certain threshold, I don't believe that's the case.  I think the it's a flat fraction regardless of whether she does 1 or 7 guys.  

I can never remember whether the Rio girl told me it was $700 or $900 of the $1600 you pay.  Please someone chime in here.  I lean towards $700, so I think the industry standard is the worker gets little less than half your damage.  Similarly a D1 would get ~$700.  The big diff here of course is that D1 girls make great tips.  The big caveat here is that the "snakehead" trafficker who pays the WG's air tickets and visa expenses needs to be made whole first.  Someone needs to chime in with how much the trafficker gets before the WG can book a profit.

Priapus - you raise an excellent question... the "snakehead" who pays for the WG transportation to Macau and arranges the visa. That is very intriguing. You're right, no doubt he would need to be made whole first. So in theory the WG is working to pay him off first before she turns a profit.

Perhaps someone out there has some thoughts.

HJF