Hello guys,

I'm visiting this part of the forum at most once a year but i have some serious question for those of you who could have some answer :p

So here is the copy of the mail i have just sent to the french chamber of commerce in HK.
I'm waiting for their reply but i'm trying to multiply the sources (even coming from 141 lol)
Either way (chamber or here) it doesn't mean i would take all answers for true/comprehensive as someone might not know all the possible ways.

If you don't feel to answer in the thread, please PM me.
Modos can move my thread if it's not appropriate here.


EDIT : ooops, sh... i thought i was in the Chat section, sorry about that :s

[ Last edited by  Chiron43 at 22-3-2011 09:51 ]

Check out the Foreign Ministry web site
http://www.fmcoprc.gov.hk/eng/zgqz/hzsyjbtk/

Foreigners with a Hong Kong Permanent Identity card (which you will get if you are sponsored by your employer to be legally employed in Hong Kong) are entitled to apply for a 3 year multiple entry visa to China.

The only prpoblem you'lll have is  having enough pages in your passport as each page can only accomodate a maximumk 5 sets of the Entry/Exit chops.  They're HUGE!

SEAJ

[ Last edited by  SEAJ at 22-3-2011 19:29 ]

Yeah it kinda sucks, i ran my last passport through in 14 months and you cannot "move" the visa to a new passport have to get a new one, pain in the ass the process (waiting)

Really, you can't just carry your old and new passport together like with visas from other countries? I only ask as I'm nearing the end of my pages.. 3left..

this is a complex subject. much depends on WHAT passport u hold. if it's from US or UK, rules are stricter.

if yr in HK, it's good to ask a travel agent as they are up on the latest rules. a lot of rules/policies were put in place for the '08 Olympics. for some visas u are asked to present a name card, and u NEVER want to have anything involving writing/reporting on there as an occupation. this might seem obvious but u do not even want to say u are a novelist and are completing your ode to the Great Wall. seriously.

check websites and forums, and contact a local travel agent if you're in HK. i dunno about French passports but yr probably better off than US/UK citizens. u can get multi-entry visas but the friend i had dinner with last nite lives in Beijing off/on and has many multi-entries. they're great: he used to live in Zhuhai and wd go to Macau just to eat dinner or watch a movie, then pop back across the border. but he's got a US passport and says the max now for multi-entries is 6 months. which is obnoxious, but it's up to YOU (or yr employer) to get the proper visa.

if u have a job in HK, yr employer shd supply u with a work contract and shd sort out yr China visas. there shd be an admin person at the firm to help u. BUT they may not know the rules/regs of visas for foreigners, so do yr research. strictly speaking, Hong Kong Immig prefers u sort out yr work-visa BEFORE u enter HK for work. but in reality many enter on tourist visas, then go to Immig Tower to apply for an extension-of-stay (wade thru this stuff: http://www.immd.gov.hk/ehtml/id991.htm). there are clickable forms that u can fill out (at least partially) online and print out, beats scrawling when standing in line. once u ARE employed u then get a Hong Kong ID card and are a resident. this is a handy card: for one thing, in case of accident u are eligible for treatment in HK's public hospitals, which are not posh but when i gashed my thumb last year i was very VERY glad i had a HK ID.

but note this is not a PERMANENT RESIDENT ID. u can get one of those, but it's a procedure. for starters, u need to live in HK for 7 years with no longer than an explainable 6-month absence (short trips are fine). and as a foreigner, they expect u to be working and paying tax. and note this in the list of criteria for employment: "the remuneration package including income, accommodation, medical and other fringe benefits is broadly commensurate with the prevailing market level for professionals in the HKSAR." that means if yr employment letter lists a salary that is not in line with what's considered a minimum salary here, the Immig officer will slip it right back to you and tell u to return with a realistic sum. they're efficient but considerate--they will not let u try to get a work-visa with a letter from a pal running a pub who says he'll hire u for minimum-wage.

i know all this as it happened to me, long ago. i got through it and have been living here 6+ years so will apply for perm res this year. but, u need a contract with the HK SME employing u. if they've hired gwailos before, they'll know what's involved. but do yr research. if they're hiring u for HK with the expectation that u will travel to China on biz, they shd sort all that out for u. HK is reasonable and orderly, China less so. but many ppl live here and travel to China on biz.

anyone else with other insight, esp anyone with a French passport, please chime in. thx.

JtB

[ Last edited by  JackTheBat at 23-3-2011 00:49 ]

If you do go to the travel agents though, they can tend to err on the side of caution when applying for the China VISA. Eg. if they say you can only get a 1 yr visa, then in many cases you can get a 3yr one if you queue up yourself at the immigration/embassy.

if you choose to keep the old passport with the old visa, you cannot take airplane with it, just travel inland (bus and train). So it didn't fit my use at all, i fly pretty often these days. Atleast thats what they say, i don't have time or patience to try it out

Thanks guys for your answers, links, advices & tips

From the foreign ministry website :

Foreigners with Hong Kong (permanent) resident status

(1) Foreigners with Hong Kong permanent resident status can apply for “L” or “F” multiple visa valid for one to three years by providing personal Hong Kong Permanent Identification Card, as well as a copy of the said ID card.

(3) Foreigners with Hong Kong resident status can apply for “L” or “F” multiple visa valid from half year to one year by providing personal Hong Kong Identification Card, as well as a copy of the said ID card.


As Jack stated the permanent resident status requires stricker rules and 7 years of presence in HK.
So anyway that means that i can still get 6 months to 1 year multiple entry which is not bad, compared to the 2 entries visa i got untill now when i was coming to HK and then going to China for business.

Now i need to check how to get the resident status with ID card

Thanks Jack for all for additional information.
The HK SME that is going to hire me is not used to deal with this process as i'm going to be the 1st foreigner to be employed.
But it's a real and "serious" job so it shouldn't be any problem about the work contract conditions.
And it's a job with people i have been working with for more than 10 years in a different context so i know where i am going.

Good place to get China visa in HK? Cost?

Reply  #2 SEAJ's post
It's not that easy. You need to reside in HK at least 90 days per year to be considered a resident. You need to do that 7 years in a row to get permanent residency. Major benefit if it's possible because you can pay HK Tax rates.

Reply  #9 JJJ37's post
opposite iSquare on Peking Rd in TST. Cost depends on your circumstances, passport, how long a VISA you want and how many entries you need. Also how urgently you need the VISA prepared.

Reply  #5 JackTheBat's post
You're spot on Jack about the cost and availability varying depending on one's circumstances. I can enter China without a VISA now, however when I did need one (a few years ago) I was able to get a 1 year multi entry VISA from China Travel Service opposite iSquare in TST (Formally the Hyatt). Cost was around HK$750. The cost was influenced by the points I made above in response to JJJ37.

I have always advised that one go directly to the Foreign Ministry office at China Resources building personally instead of using ANY agents INCLUDING China Travel service. Cheaper, safer and fastest!

The reason being that all that these agents do is precisely what you yourself can do but you will do so way cheaper and also way faster.  They would just receive your passport, give you THEIR receipt and then wait for the day's total collection before going off to China Resources Bldg. - thus adding to the period of time required.

A friend of mine had the misfortune of actually having an agent losing his passport - and there was not much he could do except having to go to report to the police and go back to his consulate to issue him an emergency passport - totally spoilt his holiday plans.  The Agent just  kept on apologizing and yes, they at least re-mbursed him for his "costs" of the passport issue - but meanwhile my friend was stuck for the hotel costs etc.

Just IMHO

SEAJ

you're getting some good advice Bro(s), I hope it's useful.

In reference to Joe's comments in post #11 above, he is correct that agents such as China Travel simply accumulate Passports and completed paperwork, then take it to the Foreign Ministry office. On the surface, it does seem to be more practical because you are cutting out the middle man. I can share my personal experience with you because I have done this several times for myself and also occasionally to assist colleagues.

If you go to an agent such as China Travel, it will usually take 10 - 15 minutes to process your request. They will give you a receipt and ask you to return the following day after 5pm. If that timing is OK for you, then the cost from the agent is the same as the cost from the Foreign Ministry office. If you need your passport processed same day, they will add a surcharge of HK$300 - $500 depending on what time you drop your passport off. Therefore, if you were like me and there is a China Travel Service agent near your hotel, and you have the time, convenience is worth something. In fact even using the express service it's only small money. The other thing I like is the people are very switched on when it comes to filling out the paperwork, why are you going toChina, where, who to visit etc??? When I needed to get a visa to go to China the staff there were always very receptive to helping me get a 12 month unlimited entry visa etc.

In other words, 10 - 15 minutes and you're gone. Call back next day to collect, 5 minutes and done.

When I have tried to do the same thing at the Foreign Ministry office, I have found it much more difficult to get to (a personal thing), it takes MUCH longer (several hours or more from the time you arrive to when you get served etc) and the staff have no interest in helping you get a longer or more flexible VISA. One plus is that often you can wait and take your passport with you, however there are fewer staff and they work slower, it seems to take much longer and then you need to hang around until they get to it so there are pros and cons. Sometimes you lodge your paperwork and have to call back hours later so in some ways same as an agent.

I'm not sure if this will help Chiron43, however it may be useful for JJJ37. You can usually get a VISA at the Shen Zhen border. Just one entry and while you wait. Prices vary dramatically based on what passport you hold and some countries don't qualify. I have used this service occasionally when I have been going to cross the border at Lo Wu with a client and he "suddenly" realises his VISA has expired. It's a good "plan B" but keep in mind they sometimes close the office without warning so you can't count on it all the time.

Another option and this really depends where you come from, is (if you can do it) apply for the VISA at the Chinese Consulate in your home country. In my country this is the cheapest way to get a VISA (about US$30 - $40 for 12 months unlimited entries) but it takes 2 weeks to process.

The best solution I know of though is if you are from an Asian country you may be able to apply for an APEC card in which case for around US$200 you can get 3 years unlimited entries without VISA into about 15 Asian countries. Having an APEC card also means you can use the Diplomat channel to do immigration saving lots of time in customs.

[ Last edited by  TonyToro at 23-3-2011 20:40 ]

many thanks to YA, TT and SEAJ for yr input! it's helping me as i know the rules/regs differ not only with which passportu hold, but with trav agent vs in-person, and the various degrees of HK residency. this isn't a "one-size-fits-all" situation, and it's good to know that upfront. just to give u an idea, my trav agent recommended that if i wanted a multi-entry visa, i should apply on my own as a namecard would not be requested (although things change, and now it might be). when HKers turn down money-making opportunities, heed them!

the APEC Card is very useful but alas, unless u have a passport from one of the 15 eligible countries, not an option. also,at TT pointed out, applying in your home country is an option u can exercise. but if you're traveling because of a job u intend to hold in HK, they should be helping u.

sounds like u have cred with yr employer, Chiron, and this is good. but be aware that if yr the FIRST foreigner they've employed, they may not fully understand what's involved. many HKers have a "home-return" card that they just slap on the desk and are waved thru: essential when the border-checkpoints get crammed during holidays. they may not fully grasp the idea that you're entering a foreign country and must have a valid visa...simply because to them, taking the train to theborder and heading across for a shopping trip/round of golf/punt is kind of like taking the subway to a suburb.

thanks also for the recent info, u see the diff in resident-cards etc. and major thanks to TT as i didn't know about the 90 days rule. theoretically this might mean u have to live in HK 90 days before applying for a China visa HERE in HK? not sure. i had been in HK well over that timeframe before ever applying for a China visa.

again, changes all the time. i'll reprint the emails from my friend with things redacted as he JUST got his new visa and says half-year is the MAX now, for US passports--this is new. u cd always get a one-year if u met the requirements...
+++++++++++
this is some new thing i just learned about today as well. has to do with visa prices for chinese to go to america going up. (CHIRON, CLEARLY THIS WON'T AFFECT U...JUST THE UNLUCKY SOULS LIKE ME WHO HAVE USA DOCUMENTS)

my last dual-entry tourist was 320. and my girls was 320. but now, all visas at my place are at least 1250 (they charge a bit more than (http://www.fmcoprc.gov.hk/eng/zgqz/blsjfy/)

these things change almost every 3 months, though.

its a lot less hassle if you go thru a travel agent rather than going direct to the CTS. i noticed that their website claims that the posted visa fee schedule has been in effect since 2004, but i have receipts for cheaper visas which prove otherwise... used to be that it was cheaper to go to CTS, much much cheaper. but they are now charging almost as much as the travel agents and are much more bureaucratic.

here are the people i use: its a bit off our beaten path, but its preferred for its no-questions policy...

http://www.fbt-chinavisa.com.hk/

there are of course many other similar visa services all around TST and HK...
++++++++++++
there are many agents, check TT's excellent advice above. in general it's good to go with an agent, but u should query your employers. also ask them if there's any chance your job could be considered "sensitive"...again, these categories change also.

it's confusing, but luckily u have a solid job offer, and the company should be able to help you sort it out. it's good to raise these questions with them as they may not have had to deal with these matters before. generally tho HKers are switched-on and should sort it out for you: if they expect you to go to China on biz they need to ensure you're able todo so! and they should pay for the visa, any express fees or agent-charges also...

once u present yr employment contract at HK Immig they shd respond fairly soon with the OK to get yr HK resident card. but if u have time, see if u can accomplish some/all of the paperwork before arriving in town. theoretically you're supposed to show up at the airport with yr work-permit although in practice most ppl come in on tourist visas and apply for work-visas later. just mention these concerns to yr employer, indicate yr happy to help with whatever's needed, but ultimately: they want to hire u, they need to ensure yr paperwork's in order. it's not that difficult or confusing, it just changes as far as China visas go. this 6-month-max multi-entry visa is just govts bitchslapping each other: as usual, it's ppl like me and my friend who draw the short straw...

JtB

I've used this office also for last 5 years, just got my 1 year Multi entry visa from them, i hold EU passport.

Thanks SeaJ. Is the Foreign Ministry office at China Resources building in HK. If so is there an address?

Thinking af traveling to Shanghai in September. How to obtain visa in this situation?

[ Last edited by  JJJ37 at 24-3-2011 00:23 ]

Yes, its in Wanchai North in bewteen Sun Hung Kai center and Central Plaza.

For the exact address as well as everything you need to know to apply for your visa, just browse their website

http://www.fmcoprc.gov.hk/eng/zgqz/

SEAJ

Simply read this thread Bro. The answer is here.


This is from the web link in Joe's post above. If this is the waiting time now days at the Foreign Ministry office I would be going to an agent for sure. I guess maybe the agents get priority service due to volume???

sales rep get things done quicker i think because they see them maybe everyday so they may have an express line or know someone in the govt that could help them process faster

Thanks everybody for all these VERY usefull information !
I was not expecting to have so much intel and feedback
Maybe because i never come in this section, so i don't know how many people are participating here.

Jack, regarding my situation, i'm kinda hiring myself if i may say so. I'm not the owner but still have the leverage to make that happen. So even if i'm sure the people in the company are wellcoming me and will do all necessary things for me to get the ID, work permit, multi-entry visa, i want to source all the processes by myself as well to simply know all that is needed and to follow along.

So basically the process for me could be :
- check out what is required to apply for the work permit and the ID
- apply for the work permit before coming (if that can be done in the distance)
- when there applying for the ID
- then applying for the multi-entry visa

Even if there are some risks (like loosing the passport) by going with an agent, it seems a faster and efficient way to get the visa and not for so much more money compared to doing it by myself.
I'm sure these agents have a special express way to get the visas. They come with piles of passports and they know all the officers there. It's a routine for them.

I have just checked my passport and i have 10 pages left, so i'm a bit concerned about what SEAJ and travelerxx were saying.
Though if really they can accomodate 5 stamps per page, that sounds a lot for me as my thai student visa that i have to renew every 3 months takes alsmot 1,5 pages depending the options i choose (re-entry or not).
So SEAJ you mean 5 stamps for the 2 sides of a page or only for 1 side ? i guess it's for 1side only otherwise that would mean 2,5 stamps per page... bit weird lol

But anyway with my EU passport (french) if i got a 1year visa same as travelerxx, i would propbably have enough space to cover 6 months of stamps in my passeport. I have to keep some space for the thai stamps too, as i will keep my appartment there and fly as often as possible

Thanks again to everybody for the help, good help !

[ Last edited by  Chiron43 at 26-3-2011 20:43 ]

Bro, the VISA itself takes an entire page (one side of a page completely). That is why it is important to get as long a duration as possible for the VISA. One VISA takes ONE full page. The image below is one I found on the net (google) and it shows how the China VISA takes the full page. And they cant stamp over it, so basically for every VISA you get you lose a full page.




Then for every in and out you get a stamp. Stamp to exit HK, another to enter China, Then another 2 on your way back. That's 4 stamps every time you go to China and return.

[ Last edited by  TonyToro at 27-3-2011 13:10 ]