Tibetans may be the fastest evolving race
       
TIBETANS may have undergone one of the fastest bouts of human evolution on record - Those having genes that allow them to thrive at high altitudes and low oxygen levels rose from 10 percent of the population to 90 percent in less than 3,000 years, a paper in the journal Science reports.
One genetic variant, the EPAS1 gene, allows Tibetans - many of whom live at 13,000 feet, where there is 40 percent less oxygen than at sea level - to thrive where others live with difficulty.

The research was conducted by scientists, from China, Denmark and the Berkeley and Davis campuses of the University of California.

"This is the fastest genetic change ever observed in humans," says Rasmus Nielsen, UC Berkeley professor of integrative biology, who led the statistical analysis.

"If the selective pressure is strong enough, it certainly could happen in 150 generations," says Bruce Beutler, chairman of the genetics department at the Scripps Research Institute in La Jolla, California.
Most people coming to Tibet from sea level "immediately feel exhausted and can't perform well," says Nielsen.
Eventually their bodies begin to produce more oxygen-carrying hemoglobin and they adapt to the environment. But Tibetans, because of their genetic variations, are able to function with lower levels of hemoglobin despite the lower oxygen.

The research also carries political overtones that are raising hackles in Tibetan circles.

The researchers compared the genomes of 50 ethnic Tibetans and 40 Han Chinese and found evidence based on shared genetic traits that the Tibetan and Han populations diverged less than 3,000 years ago. They found more than 30 genes with DNA mutations that have become more prevalent in Tibetans than Han Chinese, nearly half of which are related to how the body uses oxygen.

The idea that Tibetans somehow descended from Han is problematic for Tibetan scholars. Archaeological evidence shows that people who were culturally Tibetan have been living on the Tibetan plateau for at least 11,000 years.
Chinese scientists have for years "tried to use apparently scientific arguments to prove that Tibet is part of China or that Tibetans are part of the Chinese race, people, nation or all three," says Robert Barnett, director of the Modern Tibetan Studies Program at the Weatherhead East Asian Institute at Columbia University.

The issue of whether Tibet should be an independent country is extremely politically sensitive in China. There were widespread riots in Tibet against Chinese control in 2008.

"What identifies a people isn't genetics, it's cultural heritage," Nielsen says. "I don't think this study has any implications for the debate about Tibetan independence and their right to self-determination."
Link here:
http://www.news.com.au/breaking- ... rfku0-1225887152478

Free Tibet
atomic3d, mate are u from aus? Sorry, am just curious as you seem rich on aus news websites. I usually travel to melb and sydney for business.

maybe the two of you should meet up !

Obvious conclusion from the evidence: there has clearly been more than one invasion of Tibet by the Chinese!!

I never had a tibetan girl before.  Does any of those genes make them feel any better in bed?     It's really odd, that tibetan porn is rarely seen in the world despite having thousands of people with video cameras and cell phones visiting Tibet.  

I suspect that you wouldn't have a tibetan girl getting out of breath while she's riding you cow girl!

Is that what you meant?

-G

Been to Tibet twice, in 1991 and 1992 when Tibet was first opened to foreigners. In 1992 took a SUV from Kathmandu across the Tibetan plateau to Lhasa. Passing through the plateau we stayed the first night at a town 16,400 ft above sea level (vs 13k ft at Lhasa) and could not get out of bed the next day. The extra 3k feet made a big difference from my first trip when I flew into Lhasa from Chengdu. Lips and fingertips turned purple and had a splitting headache and overall weakness like a bad flu. I was very ill and could only crawl out of bed onto the floor on that first day.

It's incredible the Tibetans can live at such high altitude but did you know that many of them died when they traveled to Dharamsala with the Dalai Lama in the 1959. They could not take the humidity and the lower altitude air plus the insects that came with it. Thus, there can only be short term benefits when Tibetans move to lower altitudes which was not pointed out in the study.

I think most people get the whole oxygen deprivation thing living at altitude. I never thought of reverse until you mentioned it here and specifically about the Dalai Lama travel.

In simple terms having higher oxygen content would be better by moving to a lower altitude and that should be a positive. The other part about humidity and insects is interesting. Their immune system isn't as good perhaps, as they are not faced with such issues at altitude?

In Tibet, the altitude is such that even cigarette lighters do not spark a fire because of a lack of oxygen and there are no flies or mosquitoes. It's the same with the Yak, a stable in Tibet, used for farming and food. The Yak cannot survive below 10k feet, it is strictly a high altitude animal.

Its an interesting topic, basically around how people adapt to their surrounding environments.

I guess I now question the statement if they Tibetans should be really considered fastest evolving race. It took 3000 years in a potential hostile environment (low oxygen levels) for the various generations to adapt. Whats that maybe 150 generations to adapt to the surroundings? In light of not having to deal with other potential issues with regards to the immune system, is this really considered quick?

Interesting comments. I would though that Tibetan will have the advantage in sports due to the low oxygen tolerance.  Athletes like to go to higher altitude for training and increase their stamina (i.e. higher hemoglobin count) before the competition.

With some of the fatalities that went into exile in Dharamsala, they just simply did not adapt to the new hygiene standards that were required. Tibetans at the time traditionally did not bathe and only did so at the time of birth and at the time of death while others died from parasites and other insects. I once spoke to the Tibetans in India and they told me that their parents never got used to the lower altitudes. They were unable to sleep and fell sick easily even after bathing daily. They were not hybrid superhumans after all.

I was particularly interested in this high altitude issue because when I experienced it, I thought I was going to die. Like the Tibetans that moved to India, I too couldn't sleep when I was in the highlands and would wake up abruptly and somewhat violently a dozen times in the middle of the night grasping for air and suffered from these migraine headaches.

[ Last edited by  geoduck at 8-7-2010 01:43 ]

I can see definitely why you would have problems, though didn't expect it to be as bad your experience was.

I'm just really surprised with the reverse being the Tibetan's experiences when relocating to lower altitudes.

I guess if I had to compare a similarity, it would some one raised in a clean and even sterile environment say North America, and then traveling to some third world country where their immune system could be compromised. I'm probably making this a too simplified comparison, but would that be somewhat legit or would you say I'm totally off base?

Hmmm, who would have thought that the adaptation the Tibetans have would make them the perfect candidates for long term living in space!

Space ships will be closed environments with limited air and water supplies, which seems well suited for Tibetans. The ship with a crew that could operate at extremely low oxygen levels would have a very significant advantage.

Similarly, Tibetans would be better suited that the rest of us to live in colonies on the moon, or other place where there isn't already an atmosphere that's 80/20 Nitrogen/Oxygen (i.e. we'd be making are for a closed environment).

-G

au contraire you're actually spot on the money

You're basically talking about HG Wells' big premise in The War Of The Worlds: that our highly competitive biological environment, swimming in a soup of bacteria and infectious diseases, actually makes us stronger.  It's well supported by both science and by anecdotal evidence.  

Way back, before my first trip to Asia I was asking around my friends for anyone with experience and advice to share ... and I can't think of anyone I ever met who went from a (relatively clean) developed country to India and avoided at least one if not several bouts of "Delhi Belly".  Everyone gets sick no matter how careful they are.  And that includes myself of course.  

One girl lived in India as an expat child.  She shared the story about her parents and her neighbours.  

Basically India is about as un-sterile an environment as you can imagine.  It's so bad they even invented a branch of medicine that uses bacteria cultured from faecal matter (bugs in poop) ... they're called "macrophages" I think ... anyway the general picture is hygiene is terrible, you have to navigate around shit in the streets, and you basically assume any water is contaminated unless you have conclusive proof it's been sterilised.  And, because all water is contaminated, you also have to assume all food is contaminated, since produce will have be watered or washed at some point in its path from farm to market stall.  

Faced with this, most expat families take extreme precautions, and sterilise everything that comes into the home.  Makes sense.  One of the precautions is to make a dilute solution of peroxide and use it to wash all vegetables and salads before cooking and eating.  

The interesting contrast in my friend's story is that her parents decided peroxide was going a bit too far.  While they took other precautions (boiled filtered water for example) they didn't do the peroxide sterilisation.  Instead they just washed and cooked as normal, using cleaned water.  And it worked fine, none of the family had any persistent diseases ... The neighbours, by contrast, did use peroxide, and they were constantly getting sick, even after 2 years in the environment!   

Conclusion is that if you live in an sterile environment, your immune system does get lazy.  And as long as you expose yourself to the local environment gradually, your body will adapt and build up the resistance it needs internally.  That applies just as much to going to India and getting sick, as it does to climbing Mount Everest, or to Tibetans migrating to Dharmsala ... be careful to avoid transitioning too quickly, but do commit to making an ultimate full transition and you'll be fine.  

Here's another angle on the question: why do doctors not get sick all the time?  Seriously, we know the most unhealthy place to be is the waiting room of a doctor's surgery.  So how come GPs who care for members of the general public aren't constantly booking sick days?  

It's so rare for doctors to get sick that it was major headline news when a doctor caught and died from bird-flu in Vietnam a couple of years back.  What's going on?  The answer is not in their advanced training in medicine, it's simply that they are getting exposed to every new disease on a constant basis, so their body is constantly developing the "fitness" of combating a new infection.  

Conclusion is it's a good thing to get sick, just as long as it's in small doses, and you make sure you survive!

Hey G!

nice creative idea ... of course it's not the proportion of oxygen and nitrogen that matters, it's the pressure ...

and since you have to provide all the air in the first place, why would you skimp and not deliver exactly the pressure that we have in our home environment which enables us to perform at peak levels?  

It certainly doesn't make sense to try to save on a few kg of air molecules, if the result is to limit the potential pool of astronauts to Tibetans only!!

Hi D,

I may be getting this wrong, but I thought the issue was O2 absorption in your lungs. Lower O2 levels at standard pressure would be the same high O2 levels at normal pressure.

It's actually not as simple as that, but at the very least, they would be better able to deal with emergencies when something punctures the hull of a ship ;-)

-G

Absolutely right, the issue is oxygen absorption into the blood-stream.

The #1 issue is the absolute pressure in the atmosphere.  ALL the gas at high altitude has a significantly lower pressure - which is why water boils at a lower temperature (around 70C on mount Everest if I remember rightly).  But if I go back to my physics lessons, I can't think of any reason why the RELATIVE PROPORTIONS of the constituents of the atmosphere should be any different at any altitude.  

OK you get effects like ozone floating to the top, and water concentrating at different levels for a period (which are determined by temperature gradients) ... but I can't recall anything about the % of oxygen being any different on a high mountain compared to any other altitude ... after all the atmosphere is constantly churning up and down and being mixed up by thermals and downdrafts and the turbulence caused by the wind passing over mountains, so the safest assumption is the % of O2 being the same at all altitudes between sea level and the top of Mount Everest, at least at a first- and second-order impact.  The % of O2 on the Tibetan plateau is basically going to be the same as the % of O2 you and I are breathing.  

Maybe someone can correct or confirm for us.  

Totally agree that someone who's acclimatised to a rarified atmosphere would better handle a low pressure in a spaceship.  

The issue I see is that the acclimatisation is temporary: it's basically determined by the number of red blood cells in the blood.  That's the reason why athletes benefit from training at a high altitude.  And also the reason why you feel worst on day 1 at high altitude, and within a week you feel much more sprightly.  Mountaineers are advised to spend 3 days sleeping at the same altitude after ascending to a higher level.  

This in turn means that a Tibetan who lives at low altitude (or in a spaceship pressurised to standard pressure) would also get acclimatised, and lose the very quality that we're looking for.  Unless I'm greatly mistaken his specialised genetic makeup would help him adjust quickly to a reduced pressure (i.e. in days instead of weeks) ... but won't give him permanent protection ... which won't help him much if the hull is punctured suddenly during an extended voyage ..!

... just rambling ... ignore me ..!

But these are useful ramblings...

I'm going to start recruiting Tibetans for my space colony right now!

-G

LOL

more to the point: start educating them up and training them in rocket science, engineering, and organisational dynamics ... there's some catchup to be done before the majority of them are ready to work for a space administration!