(RAMBLING PROLOGUE) i've lived in hk a long time now and while i've had girlfriends here, and a few one-night stands, i've never had a FB. not here, anyway. had lots of wgs, some who sort of became FBs cause a few would really insist on not taking my money as long as i showed them a good time (nice restaurants/bars/clubs, that sort of shit). but never a real FB, a girl who isn't a WG.
recently i met a girl who just might be a potential FB. very pretty, maybe 4/5, hot bod, 5/5 (from what i can make out while she's dressed in her tight blouses and short skirts ). working class (big plus, i'm sick of posh birds -- no offence, but they just bore me) and her english is excellent (even bigger plus) and she has a boyfriend. BUT she won't stop flirting with me. nothing sexual in conversations, but i keep telling her how pretty she is and she says i'm good looking (which i find surprising. i'm not ugly, but i'm no andy lau). she'll let me hold her hand, put my arm around her waist and pull her in close for a loooong time.   and it hasn't happened but she says she'd love to have dinner with me. and her bf won't mind.
so, great, pretty sure she's somehow interested. i could just treat her like a girlfriend, but i don't want one. i figure she's got a boyfriend who can take care of her emotional needs most of the time, i just want to play with her IF it's consensual that's the arrangement.
(QUESTION HERE) -----> so after that long prologue, the question is, can anyone give me advice on how to go about it? how do i even ask her if she wants to be a FB? do i just seduce her then afterwards make clear this is a no-commitment type of thing? or should we settle that before, which makes more sense, logically, but seems would be very awkward. i figure my best chances of getting her in bed is to do so in the heat of the moment, but i'm afraid after that some deeper emotional attachment may develop.
i know, i know, i'm an amateur compared to all you pros, especially hunter, that's why i'm asking for advice. just ignore this thread if you have no time for it.
thanks
--clueless in central

Hunter probably knows everything, but how much more effort would it have taken to spell out whatever it is "FB" stands for? It's not in the Q&A glossary and when I Googled it the answer is that it is short for Facebook....so what exactly do you mean?

oopps, sorry siklong. FB=fuck buddy.

not that i have any experience in this sort of thing (i wish), but i have a good buddy whose FB is married.  IMHO, it depends on what you know about the boyfriend and where he is.  the FB's husband is in the States and never comes out to our neck of the woods and, far as i know, the FB is happy with her husband.  probably just a little lonely being on the other side of the world.

if this girl wants you as a FB, SHE will make it happen so long as you're interested.  i don't think you need to do anything except make your move when the opportunity exists.  but i'd be really careful if her boyfriend is in the same town or knows a lot of people here.  HK is way too small, and you are in a world of trouble if he ever finds out.  plus, there's a good chance that she's flirting with you because she's not happy with her boyfriend.  then you're walking straight into a field of landmines.  does she know you're single?

maybe you should ask her some questions about her boyfriend to find out what's really going on there.  if she's uncomfortable talking about him to you, then you have your answer.  you can be sure there will be strings attached if anything happens.  however, if it seems like she's quite happy with him and freely talks about him to you, but still wants to get it on, then i think all she wants is a FB and then i say go for it!

good points, pink puncher, and while may seem blindingly obvious to you (would probably be to me, too, under other circumstances), i know my judgement is clouded by my libido.
yes, he's in hk. she says they don't see each other that often. "he doesn't have much time for me." but she's comfortable talking about him. she's told me what he does for a living, we've even discussed his hobbies.
i haven't made it clear, but i'm pretty sure she knows i'm not available. will make sure she knows at our next encounter and see what happens.
i'm just really hoping she's basically like a man (or most men i know, anyway) -- happy with what she has, but just wants to play with someone else every now and then.
i'll keep you guys updated. thanks again, pink puncher

maybe her boyfriend will find a job in shanghai  

if he's off to SH, that would be perfect.  he'll probably find his own FB there.  

when she talks about him, do you detect a hint of happiness (i.e., that she is in love with him), or a hint of anger when she says that she doesn't see him much or he's too busy?  if the latter and we take the best possible interpretation, she may be harmlessly flirting with you to get some attention she lacks from her boyfriend ... or maybe it could escalate to some FB sex since he's not always available.  but therein lies the danger.  it may be just to fill in the gap for awhile, but there is a huge risk it could rise to something more than you bargained for---at least on her end.

my suspicion is this could be more than a simple FB, and it's also dangerous since he's in HK.  if you do decide to do anything, make sure both of you are drunk.  then both of you have an excuse, and it becomes a ONS.  if she gets all wierded out the morning after, then back off ... very far off.  however, if she's still totally cool after the ONS and doesn't get all clingy, you are likely to have another ONS soon after, and so on.  after a few ONS without consequence, you both graduate to full-fledged FBs!

do keep in mind though---in my experience, normal girls are never good at lying to their significant others.  that's why i worry for you.  she may eventually confess to her boyfriend.

PS - i there there are fewer FBs in HK because there are so many hot WGs available for less than the price of a fancy dinner.

Agree with PP she will make it happen.  You have to be responsive, while pulling back.  Tease her.

Do have your guard up the next day though - all girls are wired to get attached and few have the perspective to handle their own insecurity - she may get clingy.

thanks bros. appreciate your concern, pink puncher.
here's the deal, though. she's not someone i know from work or anything like that. i literally met her on the street. one of the few times i had the guts to go up to someone i found attractive, and she not only spoke english but was willing to speak to me. we see each other in bars every now and then.
she still doesn't know my real name, so it's not like her boyfriend can track me down. although i guess if they were real psychos they could track me through my car's registration. maybe i should keep using my colleagues (we like each other's cars).
and excellent point about the ratio of FBs to WGs. we really are spoiled in this town.

Eddie:  I find that FWBs are best when faced HONESTLY and with TRUST.  Sounds counteractive but take it from someone who has a few FWBs in his lifetime.  The point of a FWB is exactly what it is, Friends With Benefits.  I'm not sure if there is a difference between a FB and an FWB in your eyes.  With-holding stuff will only make more secrets and eventually the bubble will pop because of something stupid (like a misunderstanding somewhere, not necessarily sexual).  My first FWB ever, she started having feelings for me and turned in my mistress + she left her husband (broke the first rule) but the sex was so addicting that it almost imploded near the end.  From then on, it was 100% truth from day 1 on both parties and the pact was that if anyone started developing feelings outside of friendship the relationship would end.  In a perfect world it would work perfectly, but we are not in a perfect world and things are not fully outlined perfectly.  The only way to tell if she is FWB material is (no, not a hot ass!) to test the waters and "tahn hoy" EVERYTHING OUT on the table and use your big head to make sense of the ultimate decision whether you want this girl to be a FWB.  I know it is tough to let a hot chick go but how hot she is should not be relevant if she is FWB material even though it plays a part in choosing who could be a POTENTIAL fwb, the real test is how discreet and how important her "home" is to her.  I've seen a few of your posts and know that you are like me, a family man with extracurricular activities and I also know that your wife and family is very important to you except you like me are hardwired to fuck around but sometimes our little heads really can throw a wrench into our "real" lives and that is a NO-NO.   Although, you could fuck her a few times and just let it go without a long term commitment of FB or FWB.  Another thing I have noticed is that no matter how hot a chick is, I will get bored of fucking her and wooing her within a few months and would rather be fucking someone else (even if she is less attractive) so a long term FB commitment can get tedious as well.  My best FWB was a lady who was divorced with 2 kids and did not want a man in her kids' lives.  I rate her a 4 but absolutely NO responsibilities on either party.  If I wanted some, she would give it if she had time, if she wanted some, I would give it if I had time the TRUE meaning of FWB, I wouldn't call it a FB because it is much more understood by both parties.

i agree w/ what sexpert and pp has said...but i would add that to see if this situation has any legs, be frank w/ her and be direct w/ her.  this way on your part, you are not thinking more about this then you should or would want to and for her she knows exactly what you are looking for...i find w/ woman their thought process can bring them to tangents of thoughts that are way off from what your intentions are...so try to make it as black and white as possible for her is the best way...good luck...looks like you have a nice prospect...

shouldnt this post be moved to questions and advice..

From my experience women will hear what they want to hear.

For example:  

One girl I became pretty good friends with.  I'd playfully tease her and we'd talk about things.  The topic sometimes led to relationships.  I'd tell her straight out "I do not want a girlfriend."  She'd ask me why?  My response "Relationships always end with someone getting hurt and I'm just not ready for that."  Her interpretation "He doesn't want a girlfriend right now, but maybe if he likes me enough I can change his mind..."   

Or this other one I said to her "I'm here to learn, not get a girlfriend, but if you want to hang out, have some fun. I'm cool with that."  I also told her "If I think you're getting too close I'm gone.  If you're ok with that call me."  We'd do the movie/dinner thing and had some good laughs, but... near Christmas she made plans to fly to New York and come back after New Years.  Was a great idea because I was going to stick with my family on X'Mas and get plastered with my buddies over New Years.  Everything was set 'til Christmas Eve she calls me and says she came back early from New York,  she missed me and wanted to spend the entire week together.

You should be honest, however keep in mind women are wired differently from us.  When we say something it may have little meaning, but to a woman it's like dropping a bomb at times.  You can be 100% truthful and she may still hate your guts at the end of the day.  Is that fair?  No, but women don't make sense (and it's part of their appeal).

My advice to you: Know what you want and play it by ear.  She'll lead this to where she wants.  Then why do I ask "Know what you want?"  Well, because if it veers in a direction you do not like you'll know to pull the plug before it's too late.  Even if it turns into a FWB keep in mind generally these things do not last or end well.  One person or the other always ends up having expectations.  It's human nature to get attached especially when fucking leads to intimacy.

Good luck bro!

[ Last edited by  bedlam at 29-3-2009 15:28 ]

Eddie,
I just saw your post.

Personally,  I don;t fuck another gal who has a BF /Hubby. Why?? What if u are the BF/Hubby?
And I dont do DOUBLE DIP...

However, if she is single and gave u those indications u mentioned bout her, Here's my styles:
1) Straightforward and simple, telll her you wanna MAKE LOVE to her (don;t use FCUK pls, cos she is a Civi gal). Make the move and be the MAn
or
2) Say nothing. "you say it best, when u say nothing at all". Just be spontaneos and go with the flow, no need to layout the conditions, just get on with the bing bang boom......
Of cos, at the right time and at the right moment. Alcohol + ambience (ur place or her place).

Well, easier said than done, just go for it.....be smooth....

The above styles may suit me bcos the gal know my character and  personality. YOu need to study bout urself and how the gal perceive you...and use that against her!!!

it's a basic rule, isn't it? don't do to others...
i've had a couple of chances since i started this topic, but thought i'd wait at least until you replied.
and by the way, i do know how to seduce them / get them in bed and in this case it doesn't look like it would be difficult, either. i needed other people's opinion on whether i should do it.
and i've decided not to, at least for now, because, as hunter pointed out, what if i'm the bf/hubby?
and for once i'll be logical: makes more sense to just keep flirting with her anyway, then i go to my favorite 141s to finish the night.
that's the plan, anyway. thank you to all who contributed their thoughts.

never realize that FB ever existed: lucky u......
getting laid w/o $$$ implications could only direct u to more committments down the road....
beware.....and if that is what u are prepared for ---'bout the BF/hubby part: am sure that will come in time at warp speed upon your 1st date-bang.......make sure u can handle that as well....

I also agree with PinkPuncher.  She will instigate it, that's what happened to me with my FB back in Canada.

I agree with Hunter... Never eat another man's salad.. It's trouble in the making...