For a while now I thought I knew the cultural rules around a second wife ... certainly I've heard a fair amount about "er nai" in PRC, and have met a number of guys who have them ... and it's very easy to find out the rules around taking second (and third and fourth) wives in Islamic cultures ... and the whole topic is entirely separate from the cultural rules about taking a mistress ... but ...

in a conversation with a Thai lady (civilian) she brought up the subject herself, to my surprise without raising the question of money whatsoever.  I had no idea how to respond (aside from "tell me more!" ).  So now I'm curious ...

  How does Thai culture treat second wives?
  How is it today, compared to the past?  
  Do Thai and Chinese cultures differ, in regarding custom and practice for taking a second wife?  
  If a Thai man takes a second wife, what are his responsibilities towards her?

Anyone got any experience or insight to share about the topic?

Sorry...I won't be able to answer your question because I don't know anything about thai culture, though I've visited LOS 5 times.

But what I think is this is the thai cultural concept of  " Mia noi " which, I think, means "minor wife". This is more a kind of a girlfriend,  mistress that is tolerated by some thai wives.
The relationship with a man and his mia noi seems to be a stable one like with the real wife. Though, unlike the real wife, I doubt they are any ceremony to make this relationship official.

It seems this is all about the "primary" wife knowing about the "minor" wife and tolerate her existence.

The man seems to take care of the needs of his minor wife like he does with the primary wife. Only the first wife is the official wife. And I assume the primary wife might ignore who's the "mia noi" and the same must be true for some of the husband family members.

That's only what I gather from the posts I've read in other forums...I don't know if I got it right. I hope somebody would give us a better understanding of this cultural phenomenom.

[ Last edited by  conqueror77 at 8-8-2010 00:19 ]

I suspect this article is not completely unbiased, but it may help you build up a better understanding of the "Mia noi" phenomenon.


The Mia Noi or Minor Wife in Thai Culture: Having a Mistress in Thailand is Actually Quite Common

Many Thai Men Have Mia Nois or Minor Wives - It's All Just Part of Thai Culture
Many men in Thailand, both rich and poor, have a 'mia noi'. A 'mia noi', roughly translated, means 'minor wife' or mistress and has been common in Thai culture for centuries. Even in modern day Thailand, many Thai men will have a mia yai, a major wife (the main wife) and then a mia noi. The mia yai takes care of the family and the kids; the mia noi takes care of the husband, although sometimes she might have kids with him too. This practice is still so prevalent in Thailand that, only a couple of years ago, a female senator gave a speech asking male senators to not have a minor wife. Of course, I'm sure most of them weren't listening.

The Mia Noi in Thai History - Having a mia noi or minor wife has been going on in Thailand for hundreds of years. Polygamy has always been an accepted part of Thai society with those men who were wealthy having more than one wife, some of them having several. In fact, the wealthier you were, the more wives you had. In modern life, this really hasn't changed much. Of course, it's not talked about and you're very unlikely to find a man who will admit he has a minor wife. I have, however, met two Thai women who were minor wives and one had a child with her 'husband'. In one of these cases, the major wife didn't know about the minor wife. In the other case she did. But, if the minor wife is common in Thailand, what do major wives think about it?

The Major Wife and Her Thoughts on Minor Wives - Surprisingly, when the main wife finds out about the minor wife, it's not usually like it would be in the west. No demanding the husband breaks up with the minor wife, no threats of divorce. Instead, often the major wife will look at it like, as long as she and the children are being taken care of, she's not going to make too many problems about the minor wife. Overall, most Thai men still tend to stay with the first wife so, having a mia noi, some women think, can make the first marriage more likely to work out. If they push though and insist their husband break up with the minor wife, they also know there's a chance he will leave them for the second woman. So, it's easier just to stay quiet.

Major Wives in Modern Society Have Money - One thing that is changing in modern Thai culture though, especially in Bangkok, is that a lot of major wives now have jobs and money of their own. In the past, it used to be that the money for the family belonged to the husband so, in this case, the major wife wasn't likely to rock the boat when it came to mia nois as, if the husband left, she might be left in financial straits. Now, with major wives having their own jobs, some of them don't care if the husband leaves because, unlike in the past, they can take care of themselves and their kids without the need for money from the husband.

Thai Men and Minor Wives - Overall, I can understand why many Thai men have a mia noi. In Thai culture, Thai men are not usually open with their wives about many issues. They don't talk about personal problems, they won't tell them about problems at work, and they certainly don't seem to talk to each other about relationship problems. This often seems to change though when they meet a girl and she becomes their minor wife. For some reason, Thai men are a lot more open with their minor wives, telling them things they would never tell the major wife. It's often a release for them, just being able to talk to someone about problems they could never talk to their wife about. Smarter more modern Thai women, though, are realizing that being more open with their husbands makes it less likely the husband will take a minor wife and can also create a happier married life.

As a Westerner living in Thailand, I don't necessarily think the minor wife system is bad. The husband is happy because he's not so bored with just one woman and he also has a person he can actually talk to. And, as modern women in Thailand often make their own money, the cost of having a mia noi can be a lot less than it used to be. The major wife is sometimes also happy as she has less pressure placed upon her for sex, she knows that her husband having a second wife makes it less likely they will get divorced and, as long as she and the kids are taken care of financially, this set up often works fine for her.

As for the mia noi, the couple of minor wives I've met were very happy with the situation. As independent women, neither of them wanted to be with a man 24 hours a day, seven days a week. Being a minor wife allowed them the advantages of having a man in their life but with not many of the disadvantages (no dirty laundry laying around, no guy plonked in front of the TV every night, no one constantly telling them what to do).

In fact, you could call the minor wife a win-win situation for everyone involved.
Link here:
http://www.associatedcontent.com ... culture.html?cat=16

I had a book about Thai culture that went into some of this, but unfortunately it is in the States, so I can refer to it,but from my recollection and experience with Thais here is what I know.

There are actually different levels of people you have affairs with:
1. Kwai - (buffalo) This is someone you know that you aren't interested in dating, but have sex with.
2. Geek (not sure of the spelling, but that is how you would say it) This is best described in Western terms as "friend with benefits". Someone you do like, but don't want to have a full relationship with. With Geeks and Kwais there are no financial obligations usually.
3. Mia Noi (minor wife) - This is another woman- "mistress"- that the man has a relationship with. It usually would entail financial obligations. I think as the article above stated, the main wife, may or may not know about the mia noi. One other note: when I asked questions about this and used the term "mia noi" I was told that term has a derogatory meaning and that I should use another term. I think it used the word "panraya", but I forgot quite a bit of my Thai.

I had a Thai co-worker whose father had an affair with another woman. She seemed more upset that the other woman was Burmese (or from Burma- may have been a different ethnic group), than the fact he had an affair. Most of the Burmese are looked down upon in Thailand; it would be similar to someone here looking down on an Indonesia or Filipino because they typically have a lower station in life. (Note: those aren't my feeling, but trying to give context.)

Historically, "minor wives" and mistresses have been fairly common in Thailand. Thailand's sex trade is usually thought of something for foreigners, but it was and is not uncommon for Thai men to use brothels, sex massage, etc.

Awesome stuff guys - thanks very much!  

I find the whole topic of culture very fascinating.  Some of my (rather random but intriguing) observations:-

For example the way in Philippine culture it's the woman who controls the money.  The man is expected to hand over everything to her, and she then manages it (LOL!).
Or the way in Japanese culture the wife doesn't sit down to eat until after the men have finished dinner (blew me away that one, witnessed it in an educated middle-class family who even had strong Western influences)
Or the Chinese work-ethic, and the desire to provide far more than is required (e.g. at mealtimes)
... and more than I can quickly recall here ...

Anyone else have experience to share?  

Does anyone have a Thai "Mia Yai" who might have shared her own views on the subject of "Mia Noi"?
Does anyone have a Thai "mia noi"?   
How does it work out?

I can only share one experience, and it's indirect.

I have an on-again, off-again Thai girlfriend.  She was visiting her family in Isan a couple of weeks ago, and her cousin from another part of Isan came to visit.  She has eight aunts and uncles that live within a block, so it was a big family gathering.  She was telling me about the cousin.  He's mid-30s, has a nice job with the government, and is a very handsome guy (according to her).  He's married with a couple of kids...  and three (possibly four, she was not sure) mia noi.  Evidently everyone knows...  I don't know how his wife feels about it, but clearly he's no outcast.  The only restriction...  His mother told him that he was absolutely prohibited from bringing any of the mia noi to family functions.  That was an honour reserved only for his real wife...  My GF was absolutely unfazed by it all.  She just said in a matter-of-fact tone, "It happens..."

Cheers, CGP

Hey here is some good reading on the subject:

http://www.thai-blogs.com/index. ... _wife_part_1?blog=8

http://www.thai-blogs.com/index. ... tress_part_2?blog=8

Thats two parts there.

hey

for westerners in thailand, they have a wife/gf but they also seem to have plenty of other young ladies they see. All of the westerner guys i meet there had a stable gf/ wife but did what they like.
im not sure about normal thai men and two wives

From living in Thailand two years in the 90s, I can add the following:

Second (or more) wives in Thai society are generally acceptable, and they are often seen with the man about town.  However, it is rare to see the second wife in close proximity to the first wife.  Of course, there are exceptions, but in most cases I saw, they go to great lengths to ensure that the paths of the two do not cross (for obvious reasons I suppose).

The man is supposed to support both wives in good fashion, I've heard it described as equally well, but in practice, what I see is the man buying expensive items for the second wife, and even more expensive items for the first wife (guilt perhaps?).

I don't know about the past compared to the present.

One thing I do see quite different about Chinese vs Thai thinking of the second wife is that the second wives of the Thais seem to be very long-term arrangements, spanning years or decades.  Not nearly the same devotion is given by the Chinese in my opinion.