It's been a while since we've had a topic on sinking ships.

Let us remind folks about sinking ships and thus to take care! And the danger of such an event. It can sneak up on
you without warning and you may well be in denial.

Topic 1

http://forum.sex141.com/eforum/viewthread.php?tid=5181

Topic 2

http://forum.sex141.com/eforum/viewthread.php?tid=27641

Somebody I feel is boarding a sinking ship. You know who you are.

So much so they they imply/accuse me of taking the girl away......

Which is patently ridiculous! how on earth can I do that? I'm not even regularly in HK. I splash and dash. I did a flying visit last year, though this was due to somebody close to me dying.

I am old enough and wise enough not to do the sinking ship routine or to 'rescue WGs' especially since there is a large civilian population to have some fun with.

It's gotten to the stage where I'm being called an enemy and deceitful when I have done nothing. I'm just kidding most of the time and joke about things.

I mean FFS, WGs make their own choices,they are after all women and people and have lives. REMEMBER THIS.

They come and go as they please. I cannot control it, nor do I have any hand in it.

I do not own or control any of them or even influence their choices and actions.

Granted I like to fuck with people now and again, and 99% of the time they laugh when what is going on is revealed.

I mean over the past couple of years several WGs have left and everybody else seems to shrug their shoulders and think oh well.....

Which is why I think it is sinking ship but this person is in denial. Due to the extremely bad reaction that seems to of occured.

wow, having only recently landed in-country in the punting zone from civvie side, i wasnt aware that this was a real and potential pitfall of the sport!  but why not i realize now?  it happens on civvie side--then of course in wg world too.  

i mean we all to a certain extent get that gush of emotion after lb releases, right?  i always remind myself that the "lovey" feeling is a just chemical reaction--and that the OXYTOCIN will eventually recede from my system.  i remind myself this to keep from doing stupid things when the rush is particularly strong.  

i think bros in danger of sinking needs to be reminded to IMMEDIATELY physically separate from the wg in question--or risk "chemical dependency" on wg!!  get out of town, invite your mother to visit...anything to prohibit further contact with toxicity!!  because clinically thats whats happening--a toxin exposure and dependency.  

sorry for the long winded spiel. i know i'm new here, and in hope i'm not stepping out of my lane.  but maybe early objective self-analysis like this by bros may "nip it in the bud".  stay afloat, bros!

[ Last edited by  jetsetting2much at 18-3-2012 21:42 ]

Well sinking can work out, but it usually does not.  I've sunk a few times.  The likelihood of it going bad after you sink is very high, but it does not always end bad.  I've paid my "tuition fees" on this, you learn and it does getting better as you learn.  Also the kind of relationship you get from sinking does get better with experience of sinking and then resurfacing.  Done it a few times, I was very green when it first happened, there was no 141 website at the time.  I think there was the WSG but that place was not much for advice on this subject at the time.

My advice for those who are sinking or have sunken is to take it slow.  Its a long road and its a really difficult road.  You will need to make a lot of sacrifices and have a lot of understanding.  The key is to becareful, these types of relationships cannot start with trust, it goes the other way round.  If you want to sink, fine, but never start by giving total trust.  That she will need to earn it from you.  In today's world of technology we have it a lot easier to find out the truth.  I'm sure i could write a book about this but I'm kinda lazy.........

Sinking ship and denying it is a bad sign.  If you're sinking, just own up to it.  Whats there to be ashamed of?  You are a person, she is a person, no reason why you can't be together, albeit the odds are stacked against you.

Cheers   

Indeed sir.....we all live in a yellow submarine!  

A word of advice, if you have sunken or you are sinking, just be aware of the little details.  There are signs you are being "used" but most of the sunken choose to ignore these signs.  In the early days you did not have any information about this, other than hearing it from others, and if you're inexperienced, you tend to ignore these and always give the benefit of the doubt to the girl.  A few times is fine, but you need to take notice of the little details and patterns.  They general tactic is always to create a line between true and false and they know you will more often than not give them the benefit of the doubt.  How successful she is in milking you of your hard earned cash depends on how good she is in relation to how careful and wary you are........unless of course I'm the one helping her write those "I'm embarassed to ask you.....XXX" SMS's or Emails....then i'm sorry its not so easy to read in between the lines........

Just want to add my few cents worth. Back when I first started punting, I had that sinking ship feeling quite a few times. Basically I would start feeling for WGs if they're friendly, chatty, good service, etc. It's all natural and just the natural hormones talking. This then manifested itself into gifts, big tips, etc. Then slowly I realized that it's just a job for these girls and I'm just another paying rod that enters her tunnel. So that way, I've been able to wean myself off the sinking ship.

Nowadays, what I actually do if I find myself sinking is to actually go out and fuck other WGs. When you're busy fucking other girls, it's so much easier to float back up!

To summarize: When you're sinking, fuck other girls

I gotta ask you WhoreMonger...

You find it okay to help write those "I need help..." emails for your WG buddies?  It is one thing to watch a idiot punter get fleeced by a WG.., it is another to activiely assist in the scam.

You dont seem like a bad bloke from your threads, so perhaps I have taken your comments out of context.  But you've mentioned this a few times and.., well.., it doesnt seem cool.

You have to look at it this way. From different points of view I can either be in an enviable situation or I can be in a difficult position.

I'm friends with these girls and many of them are my girl's close friends. If they ask me for help I will help but I will ask them what they want to say and write it. If I sense what they want to say is not going to work I will give advice. I also ask them if they want it proper or in their own style. I'm sure even without me they can manage it, I just make it a little easier.

I'm in the middle of it all, the same time I'm looking out for my friend's best interests yet I don't really want them to fleece someone too badly, hence writing on the forums here so at least if you've got a decent brain and have read what I wrote here then it's not too difficult to pick up the signals. The girls' business is to sell a fantasy, you go whoring and you want a GFE, and if you got it then she has sold you that fantasy. If they want to upgrade and have some other kind of fantasy, the business is much appreciated too.

I'm a nice bloke if you're nice to me, but I can be as badass as they come if need be too. I run a business myself, I make deals, I get screwed, I'll also screw you over if it's in the best interest of my business. With the girls it's the same. This is a business for them, they will do what it takes to maintain the cash flow.

I don't active help them, but I will passive assist them with whatever I can help me. They are my immediate friends, I should help them. The bloke on the other end of the line I have no idea who he is.

If I was actively involved then whom ever is on the other end would really be in it deep.       Most of these guys don't last long, few months to a couple of years. Either they have dried up or they are starting to wake up.  I will confess that I did actively help one time a while back and she fleeced him for 30k in one go.   

After that I figured I shouldn't be helping actively, just passive assistance. That was also the time I decided to crawl out from under the rock after all these years.  

If I know personally and you get involved with a girl I know, well I'll be on ur side.  

Kind of agree with Wander.

You're basically helping those girls scam poor guys (maybe not all but some probably) who think they have some connection with the girl that just doesnt exist.
Here's an analogy: one of my friend wants to rob someone. He says "hey, you look more honest than me, why dont you go on the street and ask X to go in that backalley where I can unload him of his cash?". Well, you can do it your face looks more honest than him, you're not the one doing the robbing after all. Would you see that as ok also?

As far as business is concerned, my short existance and little experience in this domain has showned me that with ethics (yeah dont think that applies to punting though! ;) ) you make less money than without but you survive longer and make more on the long run (would you go back in a restaurant that served you shit priced like caviar?).

All in, I dont really care and Im not judging coz you look like a nice bloke, am not here to judge (if I was, would be on a church forum)  and also as Im not a sinking ship, got immuned on my first punt, but I cant really undersand your logic.

i can see on the one hand where many may feel whoremonger is betraying his kind/gender.  but, really, is assistance with wordcrafting equivalent to scamming?  i mean he doesnt have the pussy, nor the contact with the client.  and he certainly isn't putting a gun to the head of the sinking fellow.  that said, there are some valid points being made above about aiding and abetting too.

otoh, i also also see emotional mongering like entering a pool hall (snookers i suppose for you commonwealth chaps) full of pool sharks.  get involved with a wg is like a round of high stakes pool and nobody said this was going to be a fair game.  you get emotional, it MAY be used against you.  you get emotional, you takes your chances--and they are stacked against you.  you have stepped out of your lane, and may end up roadkill.  dont hate the player, hate the game.

SAME shit happens in the civvie world!!!!  and in civvie land there's no (or fewer) CAUTION DANGER AHEAD roadsigns.

not taking sides, nor making judgments, just making an observation and playing devil's advocate.

[ Last edited by  jetsetting2much at 21-3-2012 11:55 ]

Dude, WM-
Not sure what business your in, but if you really will-

"I run a business myself, I make deals, I get screwed, I'll also screw you over if it's in the best interest of my business. "

-to try and get ahead...............you need to be careful.  Call it Karma (pardon the pun) but pay back is a bitch.  There are plenty of ways to succeed with out standing on someones back to get there.

I personally would avoid business and businesses that rely on screwing someone over to get ahead.  Maybe I'm old fashion.  In the end is never pays.

I'm just sayin..........

Che'lu

Yeah, I gotta say I thought EXACTLY the same thing when I read that line in his post:  "Oh, this is the type of fellow we're dealing with?".  Hmmm.

Ya know Whoremonger, your previous posts never really gave me a bad vibe at all, and I I wanna give you the benefit of the doubt here -- but I can't agree with this mindset, nor ever needed it to get ahead!  Not in business nor in life.  

Anyway, I am not gonna preach and we're off-topic anyway.  For me, I wouldn't  help a friend scam or screw-over a stranger for business purposes (likely I would de-friend him, actually)  and I wouldn't help a WG do it  either.

Thanks for the honesty bro. Perhaps you would like to share with us some brief details on what are the common tricks that girls use? That way, we can be prepared should the time come. Consider it your way of repentence..

wait... these girls are your immediate friends??? what kind of a social circle do you walk in here? its one thing to be friendly and polite but its a whole other ball game when your friends with the girls and your helping
them by "powdering the truth"!

heard of the saying dont shit where you eat? or dont bite the hand that wanks you? seriously.. there is zero
credibility with anything you would have to say then dont think i or any other bro here can trust a word or
report you ever put up..

your batting for the wrong team here buddy!

I'm not judging you, but LE has a word for that. It's called "aiding and abetting".

I can see your logic that you are closer to the WGs than the unknown bros on the other side, but keep in mind, not all WGs are scammers. Maybe you ought to develop deeper connections to the ones that are a bit less openly dishonest, for your own safety.  You bring a wolf into the house....

Hmmm, Interesting thread.

It is easy to see both sides - in most of life it is not guys against girls, or vice versa, it is you and your 'family' (whoever that may be) against the world.  Many of us consider all of our bro's to be 'family'.  Whoremonger also considers some of his WG friends to be 'family'.

Perhaps we should all give our heads a shake.  

I don't think that the two are mutually exclusive. There can be WG's that we care about and also guys on this board that we don't.

I had a friend who worked in a strip bar, way back when.  He was the DJ, and he used to strip the songs down to 3 minutes each so that the girls could make more money.  We used to hang out in the DJ booth and watch suckers come in, and take bets with the girls as to how much money they could extract.  Sometimes we would offer suggestions, and watch and laugh when the scene played out according to the script.

Did that make us bad?  Were we letting down the team?  Should there have been some kind of invisible bond between us and the guys in the bar and we should have been their guardian angels protecting them from the evil sirens?

And as far as separating the scammers from non-scammers - I kind of follow the notion that no business will succeed if the effort to acquire a new source of revenue exceeds the actual revenue received.  If the amount of time that a girl spends courting you(r money) exceeds the benefit she gains, then she is probably genuine.

Looks like WhoreMonger checked-out but I'll contribute nevertheless.  

I see a WG regularly. Same one.  Sinking ship syndrome is a very real problem. You need to remind yourself that you at one of many to her.  It's hard to do because your ego is telling you that you are special to her. It's the ego that leads to the sinking of the ship much more than the physical or emotional connection.  I've manage to prevent myself from sinking but only just sometimes

As for assisting girls in scamming dudes, perhaps it's not such a clear cut situation.  We Gwailos like to see the world as black and white with no gray in between while in Asia everything is gray (especially the sky).   Perhaps Monger encouragesthe girls and it makes him feel more special to them than their other punters. Perhaps his ego has sunk his ship and he's the one in denial.  We shouldn't throw stones. Who and emotion are powerful things and it sounds like Monger has let his get the better of him for now.  

As for scamming other bros...the WG I see regularly has a fly-in punter from Europe that doesn't come to GK much but his ship definitely sunk for her. He calls her several times per day an will call over and over again until she answers.  She's a good hearted girl and speaks to him but it is really draining for her. It's annoying, he apparently says annoying things and it's a constant hassle every day.  I told her he should pay her if he wants her to be at his neck and call (pun intended).she laughed at first but then agreed later (a few weeks later). Now he sends her money monthly and she continue to takehis calls.

I don't think I helps her scam him but it's a fine line for sure.  Personally, I think it's right he should pay for her to be on a time retainer for him and not a scam at all but it's a matter of perspective.  A gray area.  

Monger, dont let your ship sink further.  You may be special to these girls but your a special customer.  A customer.  Sorry if that wounds your who but in the long run its healthier to put yourself back in place.

I've had my ship sink once - and it remains blissfully sunk.  I see her weekly - more if we can manage our schedules to meet more often (which is rare).  The most beautiful woman I ever saw.  

At first it drove me crazy --- cause I was completely head-over-heels for her yet absolutely rejected the idea of falling for a WG.  So I pushed her away over and over.  She never asked for me money - just my time.  Finally, I gave in... Admitted to myself, and her, that I was irretrievably smitten and accepted it.  Ahhhh..., the angst disappeared.  We've now been in an "affair" for quite some time.  Best sex I have ever had!  I am glad I chose to dive in head-first.

I'm not sure if most of the replies have much to do with what the OP is talking about ... or am I wrong ?

It doesn't matter so much,

I'm not one for I told you so, merely as long as what is said is said and there is some consideration before choosing to board or not so that you go in with eyes wide open.

Then there is little problem.

Ah i knew i was surely gonna get this, wouldn't expect less,   Yes i write on their behalf, i ask them what they want me to write and i write it.  Yes i do correct somethings about how they should write about it, but overall its their decision whats written.  I don't add anything significant to what they tell me to write.  In my position, i can't really say no, and if i'm not around they write it themselves, but they know i can write better so they just ask me, and it would be insulting to them if i said no to this little request.  

I''ve sunken way deep with this one, there is no resurfacing i think.  Either i grow gills or i'm done I've done this a few times and got involved with a WG, only in the first case was i the victim.  I paid my tuitions fees then and since then I always felt it was real.  You may add how and why would i think so.  Well, if you are just seeing them you know like on dates and outside of work, its hard to tell where you stand.  When you meet their parents and live with them for extended periods of time (their place), thats a lot more real for them and you.  They have taken you to their family, who most probably have no idea what they are doing for a living.  You meet their normal friends, people who they went to school with.  Its a huge risk for them to take that step with you.  If something went wrong and you're one of those vengeful guys and started contact all those people and tell them what she does and where she does it...... .....that would destroy her....and there are certainly these types of people in this world  

The one i'm with now is completely honest and open with me, I've been to her home town twice, met all the family, relatives and friends, during lunar new year.  Its ultra-conservative where she is from, she told me, if you bring a guy home, thats supposed to be 'the one" otherwise you're a slut/whore to everybody.  If she has put all this on the line for me, why should i not trust her?  

The other girls are her friends, i'm "her guy" to them, they ask for a small amount of help from me and if i refuse it would mean my girl really "losing face" with them.  They all treat me really well, sometimes its weird like they have a party and I'm not in town, they ask my girl to call me to come over.....when i get there, i'm like the only guy there and they've cooked all sorts of food for me or when my girl goes to work and sometimes she calls me and tells me to go pick up some food one of her friends made specially for me......  

Its not easy to explain how it is unless you've been in a similar situation.  One thing i do notice is that if you're classed as a "customer" they would never talk or mention other customers between themselves when you are around.  You really need to be highly trusted for them to open up about this.  Especially when they don't know how to reply those messages that say "oh, i want to fuck you all night and cum on your face this time".  If you're a guy and a girl shows u this and ask you how should she reply, in a polite way, to decline the COF, well in these situations i feel obliged to help with the writing....


Cheers