I went to visit Liann. She is a great local WG with great English ability.
http://forum.sex141.com/eforum/v ... &extra=page%3D1

Every country handles the punting scene a little differently. When I get to a new scene I like to know how the process works from side of the punter, but also from the side of the girls.
I am a curious person, and I like to know how the girls are treated, so I asked many questions when I meet one who speaks English. The girls are people too, not living blow up dolls. They are going to have their bad days and good days. They are most certainly going to have opinions on how things work.

Another bro wanted to know what I learned from Liann, so I figured I would share them here in a new thread. Feel free to add anything I might have missed or information you feel is wrong. I am certainly no expert. I am just reporting what I learned, or what I assumed on my own. This is all hearsay.

Liann says she pays a total of about 8000 HKD a month for the room. This includes rent for the room, advertisement costs, and a towel cleaning service. I was wondering how they handled those pile of towels.

Before I came I thought the girls lived in the rooms they rented so you would see a lot of personal items. Turns out they rent the rooms as more of an "office". Liann tells me she leaves every day about midnight and walks home to her normal place. Then she comes back in the morning.

When I got to a 141 late I saw a group of women all locking up and leaving at the same time, so they did not tend stay in the rooms. I did see one suitcase, but maybe she was only there for a short time, so decided to sleep in the walk up room?

I wonder, do the girls who are there for a week stay in the room as a hotel of sorts?

There girls that are there for more then a week tend to make friends with her neighbors.
Liann says many of the girls are rather lazy . I liked to have one in the early afternoon, see some normal sites, and then have another in the evening.  I noticed that many of the girls did not start when they said they would. There tended to be trends among the buildings though.

Liann says that the rents for the none walk up apartments in the buildings that have them are actually rather cheap. So those who rented them put up with a floor of WGs for cheaper rent. I would find having a group of WGs in the building just a floor down very convenient. . Although, it looks like the apartments suck.

Another thing she told me is she does not see the one she pays rent to as a "landlord". She refereed to him as her "boss". She said the owners were a husband and wife team who also own several of the other buildings with walk-ups. Apparently there are only a handful of owners who operate all of the walk up buildings in the SAR.

I also knew the girls had to have someone who took the photos for them. Most of the photos were taken with a Canon EOS 60D. There were only 3-4 different cameras in total. You can check this using the meta tags in the JPEGs. Even when the site adds the watermark the meta tags remain so you can check the camera that took the original photo. Also, a lot of the "reviews" on the ads are written more or less the same, so I assumed most are being written by the same group of people.

I had a very educational conversation with this WG. I hope this information was useful for some of the other bros here.

[ Last edited by  TravelGuyHK at 13-5-2011 13:47 ]

Wow this is an excellent post and I suggest the mods to Sticky this and maybe every one can contribute some of their stories.

One of the WG's I frequent told me a similar story and was planning on leaving once her "lease" was up with the current "office" she was operating from.

Excellent post and enjoyed your reports bro!

When will you be releasing your book?  

Along with walk-up WGs, I'd like to hear how HGs are treated by their agents... how they hear of the work and come to HK, how much they make on average... this is very interesting.

Very informative post, quite interesting

Interesting topic.

Thought I would share my info about the way the Wan Chai Bargirls work…  It is a different scene then the 141 girls.

Like the OP, I talk with the girls a lot.  I’ve heard a million stories, but here is a fairly common set of procedures.

First, the more experienced girls will be 100% freelance:  they buy their own airfare from the Philippines, Thailand, or Indonesia (mostly these three countries in WanChai) and get a 30-day tourist visa (the first time.., their next entrance to HK might get them a 15-day visa, then 7 days, then maybe 1 or 2 and then they must exit  HK for 3-6 months before they can apply for a 30-day visa again).  

The newer ones, or poorer ones, can’t afford the upfront costs (airfare, etc.) and therefore work with a “manager” or “agent”.  The Agent buys their ticket, does all the paper work for their Visas, and provides them with living accommodations (usually a high-rise apartment with bunk-beds filling the rooms with anywhere from 4 to 10 girls living there and constant rotation of the WGs as some exit and new ones arrive). They pay around $120HK per day for the room, plus between $5000HK to $15,000HK for the Agent’s fees (Visa, airfare, etc.).  The exact amount varies quite a bit based on airfare costs and how knowledgeable the girl is about the “right” fee.  A lot of new girls get ripped off royally!  Often the agents will keep the passports of the girls so they cannot go anywhere until the debt is paid.  The girls, however, make their own schedule – the agents rarely concern themselves with their day-to-day lives and the girls are free to come and go as they please:  just pay of the debt in daily increments! Most of the Bargirls I’ve spoken too who have Agents/Managers speak decently of them – they seem to usually be helpful, protective, and useful to the girls as they find their way.  I have met a few WGs who have had evil-bastard Agents, but this seems to be an extreme minority!

The other girls in the room will show the new girl the ropes.  They’ll introduce her to the bar managers at Neptune or Escape, etc., so she gets on the girl-drink commission scheme and that’s that:  She’s in!  She’ll earn about $40 to $50HK for every drink some punter (like me) buys her, and around $1000HK for every punter who takes her back for FS.  Most of their work is ShortTime (1-2 hours), so she may head back to the bar and get lucky with a second or third punter.  Usually, however, there are enough girls working that they DON’T get 2 or 3 guys for FS a nite.  Often they strike out completely.

So, you can see that their expected (typical) earnings – even if they only score 3 or 4 punters a week – is still enough to pay off the debt, live and eat, and still send extra cash home.  The top-quality beauties will do very, very well in a 30-day period.  They’ll pay $3-5K HK to arrive+live+eat, and earn $50K HK  or more (sometimes much more) during their trip.

One girl I know, who is only on her third short-stay trip here, has saved up $80,000HK already and is now done…, she flew home to Thailand to buy a rubber-tree farm.  Mind you, this is a rarity – most of the girls seem to save NOTHING!  They are generous with their families, and waste the rest on iPhones, clothes, and partying.

PS:  that smart Thai girl I described emailed me pics from her new farm.  All dressed up in dirty work clothed and a ragged hat to block the sun - and with the biggest smile on her face.  I almost didn't recognize her from the stunning, sexy babe I grinded with on the dance-floor (and the hotel) and it was a nice feeling:  a determined and practical girl who got out young enough to build a life.  I wish her well.

[ Last edited by  wander at 17-5-2011 05:53 ]

Thanks to both bro's for the WU and Bargirls insights. 8k is pretty steep for the room, as pretty much all the one's i've been in are in a right state - certainly very small also.
I think there are a good number of Walk-ups who do stay in their room, from my experience of asking them etc.

That is very interesting.

It sounds like the world over you get two kind of girls in this profession.

You get the smart ones who realized there is an expiration date to this kind of work. So knowing that they save up as much money as they can when they are young, and then use that money to start a business or get an education (or both). I have been in contact with a woman I met in Pattaya several years ago. She saved up enough money to be able to pay for a four year college and all of her living expenses while going to school. Then she had enough money left over to start a business. This was all saved up from working the bar from the age of 19-23. She started a tour business after getting her degree.

Then you get the not so smart ones. These are the ones who must think the kind of payday they are getting will last forever. So they blow all of their money on "iPhones, clothes, and partying". Then when they get into their early 30's (the typical "expiration date") this will still be the only way they know how to make money, but the pay is much lower. It becomes a rather sad situation actually.

So Im thinking anytime I'm in HK, Thailand, PI and meet an educated gal running a business there is proabably a story there.

[ Last edited by  JJJ37 at 16-5-2011 07:54 ]

Exactly the case..., and it seems the vast majority fall in the second (not so smart) camp.  Ask them what their "dream" is and 90% say "Marry a rich man to take me away".  But they almost never meet their prince charming as a bargirl.  

BTW:  I should have added two bits of further detail to me report:

1) The Bars don't see a penny of the cash the girl earns if someone takes her out.  They do not work for the bar.  The only relationship they have with the bar is to encourage punters to buy the drinks.  The bar wins, the girls get a commission, and that's it.  No barfines.

2) I am only referring to the "regular" disco's and music clubs in WanChai where the freelancers work  - not the Velvet Curtain Bars.  In these bars the girls DO work for the bar and a Mamasan will negotiate her barfine with you.  This will inevitably be WAAAY over-priced (they will usually start by saying $4K HK!!!!  A huge rip off, so avoid at all costs and stick to the clubs/discos mentioned.

[ Last edited by  wander at 16-5-2011 09:01 ]

So the women in their 20’s just want to party and meet men with money to have sex with in exchange for the men keeping them living in a high class life style. All the while they are hoping one of these men they have sex with will want to marry them. To their disappointment they find the men they are with are only looking for a good time. Then when these women reach their 30’s they realize the men they could get easily in their 20’s are no longer interested and they have to find more desperate measures to maintain their high class life style. As they get older they become bitter and feel there are no good men left in the world. What they come to realize is if they had stopped and looked more for stability rather than just money when they were younger and had more options they would not be in the sad situation they are in now.

That sounds like the dating scene in most American cities except the bar girls in Asia are more honest and upfront about how they expect to be compensated.

[ Last edited by  TravelGuyHK at 17-5-2011 02:39 ]

Very interesting post and good insight on how it works on the other side. While most people would read out of curiosity, it is very informative. The more information out there, the safer it is for all parties. Mutual respect and understanding goes a long way.

Yep!  This scenario repeats itself over and over and over.

But a couple qualifiers:  "high-class" lifestyle is a relative term.  Most WG's (the world over, but especially in Asia) don't earn a huge income relative to what an educated, and skilled women would in a regular job in a developed county.  But they tend to earn MUCH more than their local sisters and cousins  working in a factory or some other very low paid (but readily available) job.  They have options and alternatives to this work, but with much lower pay.  They return to their hometowns with nifty clothes and phones and exotic stories of HK, Singapore, Macau, etc., and you can see how the next-generation of girls get curious and decides for the "easy way out" as well.  

So many fail to realize that their shelf-life is short and few men look for their future wife in a hooker bar.  It happens, some men "sink" for that babe who's 20-years younger and pleading her love.., but very very few.

Still it has to be put into the context that, from the backgrounds of a lot of these women and the countries they come from, that they do not think years and years ahead. They don't have the luxury of thinking that far - especially when you take into account the lifestyles of people in the more developing countries.

Just to add a few extra points to Wanders excellent post...

Some of the Filipina's managers supply them with false passports. This usually means they come in on 'sponsored' visits allowing them to stay even longer. I know of a crew of girls who all work for the same guy. He obviously has contacts in Filippines passport as he is moving girls into HK with dodgy Pinoy passports and a valid 'sponsor' at this end. This is good for them to stay a lot longer but obviously costs the girl a lot more in fees. Not just to pay the manager back for his expenses but those of the 'sponsor' who is usually a Pinoy with permanent status. Maybe an 'aunt' or 'cousin'.

The thing is, it's not uncommon for a girl to work for 3 months yet not until the last 3-4 weeks will she earn any money for herself. So you can get an idea on how much in expenses the manager is earning for getting her here. These girls tend to be the younger less experienced ones. Even though few I've met had a bad word to say about their boss still.

Sad to say, some of the girls I know and still keep in touch with would go back and be skint again after a month back home and be arranging to come back fairly quickly. I know girls on this arrangement who do 3-4 trips a year being here for 9 out of 12 months sometimes. They work like fuck earning drinks and take outs, get back to Phils and their family chews up all their cash in no time buying luxuries or paying off credit. It's amazing to know how much credit a family can get from the local loan sharks when they know the daughter is working in Hong Kong for three months. The pressure for them to get back is immense not long after leaving with supposedly a pocket full of cash .  Very few I know get anywhere near to fulfilling their dream of making it rich. Perhaps one or two have snagged foreign boyfriends who have them on Western Union programs. They are the lucky ones.

A lot of these girls are very naive. Never been on a plane before. I flew to Manila to meet up for weekend with one once.she couldn't believe how much my flight cost on Cebu pacific. I only paid about 1200HK. Her manager had charged her 4k each way!

I've walked in on a couple of the photo shots in the walk-up rooms over the years here. Young guys were using on camera flash to small light box set ups, from G9's to DSLR's.

Also, some of the Thai girls I've seen here tell me stories of how they are not allowed to even leave their rooms. One girl told of how all her money is taken away from her after the client leaves the room. I asked one how she liked the food here in Hong Kong. She said she's been on the toilet for a week. I told her about the five Thai restaurants on the street below her room and that's when she told me she was not allowed out of her room at all.

In the scenario I gave above, most of those girls have to hand in their cash each day. The manager tally's up the earnings until the credit is paid. Up to a year or so ago a lot of the girls could skim some off the top by hiding a few thousand here or there but now they get checked over on returning to digs. They are monitored when in the bars by an older trusted girl so any takeouts are noted. The girls have less chance to skim anything off. In one case I heard of. One girl got caught out. So she was taken to the airport and as she was left her passport was torn up giving her all sorts of problems to get back. On top of that she got no payment from the manager even though she was at the end of her stay. Only two weeks left and had paid off her credit. She was made an example of by the boss so the new girls all toe the line.

I've also heard of girls agreeing to LT for 1k and the manager demanding 1500 afterwards. She only got 1k from the punter in effect meaning she owes the manager 500. Actually paying the manager to be fucked by one of us.

Damn, it sounds like some of these managers are real assholes.

If they have to give all of their earnings to the manager how do they get things like food and maybe a change of clothing while they are in town?

Wow and fuck!  I don't tend to do the walk-ups, sticking to the freelance bargirls myself - so I didn't know just how bad it can be for them.

The more I learn the more I wonder why any girl would choose walk-up work over freelancing in a place like HK.  Work much less, get $1000 or $1500 per punt (instead of $300-500) and no asshole manager to pay-off.

Pocket money. They still need basics like toiletries, some clothes, makeup etc. The manager will give weekly pocket money. All added to the credit of course.