It's extremely dangerous to make WGs the focus or highlight of your life. Not only is it unhealthy to give them such a prominent spot in your world, but they are absolutely masterful at exploiting people in such a weak situation.

First step for you is to make some friends. Male, female, doesn't matter -- just people you can be happy around. That will provide you the companionship that WGs can't provide you.

WGs can be dessert or a side dish, but it gets really dangerous when it's your main meal. Or to make a different metaphor: it's ok to drink booze sometimes, but you're in big trouble if you are drinking booze instead of water.

About finding an attractive SO: I am no looker, and have always been able to attract super-hot girls (and I don't mean hookers) who are physically way out of my league. Yes, I'm that guy you see and think "what the hell is she doing with HIM?" Relax and don't disqualify yourself so quickly.

"Woman, you cant stand living with them and you cant live without them. "

This is so true.

so true bro, so true.  

If you THINK you can't score, you can't.

Okay here is your top five list from me, GranTorino2:

1.  Start working out like crazy, and change your diet for the better.
2.  Once you shed five pounds or so, and your body starts to respond, buy some new clothes.
3.  Make it a point to befriend girls at work, remember ugly girls are easiest, and they have good looking friends and cousins.
4.  Be passionate about your work.  I know this one sucks, but for some reason this attracts women.
5.  Find some cool hobbies, exclusive of Star Trek, and really devote yourself to them.

You will feel great, have a lot of new friends and will be turning down free pussy.  I guarantee you this will put you back on the right path.

Happy141,

I often have this conversation with one of my best and closest friends.  He moved to HK around 6 years ago to help with his family business, and he ended up going to lots of KTV.  It is just the nature of Chinese business.  He's had girlfriends during those years, but he doesn't seem that happy.  I really worry about him.  On the other hand, I'm in the states, married, have a kid, a prestigious job, etc.  We both complain.  He complains about being lonely, living in HK (small space, crowded, materialistic), empty life full of KTV girls.  I complain about being in the rat race, living an "Office Space" existence and my wife spending all my cash (oh yeah, and she can spend cash-- she's already eyeing my bonus).  

His bro told me he's definitely changed.  He used to be the nicest and coolest guy I knew.  He was super laid back.  Now he has a much shorter fuse, and well, sometimes I can sense he even gets pissed off at me.  Apparently, I'm the last guy he gets pissed off at (according to his bro and his KTV buddies), but I can tell his personality has changed.  He seems happier now because he's stopped wanting to come home and accepted his surroundings.  (more on this later)

On my side, I have everything a person would ever want, but I still bitch.  I found myself going to KTV with my buddy, and coming back to the U.S., and being completely disoriented in how I interacted with my world.  I thought about KTV all the time.  I started making jokes to my wife about how I was going to run off with a KTV girl.  I would get pissed if my wife didn't "treat" me properly.  In fact, I think I just got used to having a DJ get me everything. he he!  

Anyway, long story short-- going to KTV, mongering, etc. does distort your world view (it is hard to see how it can't).  Also, no one his truly happy.  That is the part of the human condition.  If you were happy all the time, you wouldn't get out of bed.  It is one of three noble truths of buddhism that "life is suffering".  The other two is "Suffering is caused by want/desire" and "when you stop wanting, you will stop suffering".  It sounds sucky, but I've been happier lately.  how?  I just accepted it.  I think my buddy is the same, and cheers to him!    

I'm a corporate grunt, but I will never be hungry, my family will always be taken care of and I should just enjoy every moment I have with them.  I try to be happy with what I have, and realize that in this "Great Recession," it could be much worse.  If I ever become "super baller rich" then "Sweet!", but I don't long for it any more.

In other words, the grass is always greener, and nothing is perfect.  Just accept it, embrace it and happy mongering!  Only then can you reach enlightenment (and you'll be the buddha of mongering)!  

pb

Exactly.  You have to have a balance.  If you get all eaten up about mongering you will definitely have life-problems.  But I think for many of us mongering is a therepeutic.  If my gf is really pusihing the limits, rather than yelling or breaking something or saying something I can't ever take back, I just say in my mind "okay everytime she says I'm just like my Dad, I'm going to see a hooker".  So when she says it now I just smile.

For as long as men could paid for sex, or got it any other way, they have paid for it.  It is the reason that they found a man and his slave in each others arms, charred to a cinder, in the remains of Pompeii near Mount Vesuvius.  It is the reason that ancient Greek prostitutes at the bottom end of the scale were called pornai.

However, others may agree, there is an element of self degradation in mongering; the act of payment, the short couplings, the implicit betrayal (for those with SOs, like me), the emptiness that follows - the OP has described it to a tee.  For me the nadir came when, drunk, and woth the SO out of town,  I actually called to my home over three WGs in the space of one night, one after the other (And in case you were wondering, I only 'performed' with the first   ).

It was, as I said, the nadir.  The self disgust that followed lasted for a while until I found a kind of peace by realizing two things.  One, there is a lot more to me than being just a mongerer.  And there is a lot to my life than mongering. I go out of my way to help people.  I am considered a valuable employee, a generous friend and a kind man. I have hobbies that I take pleasure in.  So many things.

You may consider this dual existence hypocrisy; for me it is the second thing that I realized.  Mongering, while a small part, is realy a part of who I am.  That's it.  It is part of my human condition driven by my biological instinct as a man; I enjoy it; it is a little exciting; I am gentle with the WGs I meet.   And there is something essentially funny (a little sad as well) in chasing pussy so relentlessly.  And the fact that I need to be just a little drunk to do it (another thing I can now accept about myself).

So a little humour, a little self awareness has helped me find peace.  I hope you find your own peace.

And no, I will not repeat the three a night experience again. For one, my lil bro isn't going to understand.

Absolutely not. What we do is not a good thing, it's not decent or moral and we should all realise that. But, like you, I try to live a good life outside of mongering, to try to balance out the Karma. I just hope I won't be judged too harshly when my time comes.

You find the right woman, life looks a lot better.  Of course you want extracurricular pussy, who doesn't but it's that empty feeling right after you cum.. that makes you want to go home and enjoy the family warmth.  It's just part of growing up.  I remember in my younger married days, whenever the family would go out to do something, I would still think about mongering a lot.  Now, when the family goes out to do something, I think about mongering a lot less, well except when I was in HK with the family, hey, it's HK! LOL... But find the right girl, and moderate responsibilities to balance everything out.  I have a shit load of free time because of the nature of my business, sometimes I feel extremely lonely when the kids are in school, the wife is working and I am home alone.  Once everyone is home, it's awesome for the next hour talking , playing or whatever until one of my boys decides to body slam another and I start threatening them.  Then once night comes, we all rest, make love with the wife, and the next day, again.  A good balance makes life worth living.  It would be fun to monger if my wife and family was never around, but that shit gets tedious really fast.

When I am in HK by myself, I monger 2 times a day, that's only 1.5 hours out of the day.  Then what? then you have nothing better to do than to find good food, go to museums, and do  a bit of shopping .  During this time what do you think about?  "damn i wish the wife and kids were here, to eat this, see this, do this"  It's hella empty without my family.  Mongering is such a small role in my life, compared to my family.

I'm generally a very optimistic and happy guy, but 8 yrs ago depression struck me for no very clear reason. I just didn't feel like anything.  Lost my job and lots of money, but didn't mind at that time. When lying in bed I finally realised only one thing could get me out of bed: mongering. After that I started adding other hobbies to it and I fully recovered in a year time.

Guys enjoy sex with several gals that much that society should accept it. There's not enough sex in the world. Sex keeps us young and interesting.

Single guys should monger sometimes to feel better sexually. It will improve their chances with women.

Other bros should also monger sometimes. It will improve their relationship.

If you monger too much though it might be a sign that you should find other things you like.

Jesun, your post impressed me most. Reminds me of a lot of people. Like the chinese cooks in remote places not knowing the local language.  But your realisation is the first step.

Figured out your next step already ? have an affair with dating sites ? buy a Harley ? visit lonely old people ? join a tennis club ? protest against protests ? become a gigolo ? dare to call your friends more often ? start a business ?

I'm not answering as a lonely unattached guy, but here is my advice.

You don't need to have one of (the pretty ones) for a GF.  You say you are not rich or handsome, so be open enough to find a GF of the same.  I can tell that you can get more satisfaction with a GF that cares about you than one that is eye candy.  And when you do have the need to shag a young beauty you know where to find it.  Just be extra discreet and safe.

But don't mope around for a year lonely because you will only settle for a princess as a GF.  Besides if you ever hook up with one of these princesses, they are high maintenance, hiiiigh maitenance.

i made a point not to fall in head over heels with a WGs. Because they actually can ruin your life. A WG will never change.
it their way of life to break hearts. I dated a bunch of girls in school and saw a couple WGs. One WGs actually caught my eyeand i thought she was the one for me. I poured my heart out to her on a sleeve and spend a ton of money on her since i had a good paying job until last year. Well needless to say she into the money but not into me. I bought her anything she wanted including a nice car and home. Since I thought she was one and I was about to propose to her in a couple months.     Then she i found out she cheated on me and played with me. In the end I lost the car and the home to her.

Relationships can be great if the girl isn't a scammer and cheater. I guess just make sure to find the right one before you really fall head over heels.

wow, what an interesting thread.....
I think as someone said earlier, there just needs to be a balance in life.
Mongering is not necessarily right, wrong, good, or bad. But it certainly does satisfy a need in all of us. Prostitution is one of the oldest professions in the world and no matter what any society does to rid itself of it, somehow it always reappears in some form.
Therefore, I have concluded (to my advantage) that it is a purely natural thing with all men to have this desire.

But back to the main point, it doesn't matter about girlfriend or no girlfriend, the point is if you are satisfied with what you have. And this is all in your head. Good friends and family are so much more important. they are the foundation. Work on that first. Focus on your work, life, everything else, and girls will just come into the picture automatically.

From personal experience, I have found that when you don't try and don't care, things somehow fall into your lap......  Maybe its a karma thing?

Mongering can ruin personal life because mongering raises the standard of beauty.
In real life, I cannot find a young and beautiful girl to date because of my old age. After a session with a WG (or a trip to Macau or BKK) , it can be hard to be attracted sexually to a girlfriend.

I think you should speak about yourself only.  I monger, but I still find my wife the most beautiful woman in the world, even after well over a decade of marriage.  Each person is different, mongering can ruin my life if I GET CAUGHT! LOL...

Unless you look and act like you're in your 80's why can't you find someone ?
All girls, including good looking girls comes at a price, no matter which way you look at it !

I just think gal having stunning figure/face is just one of attractive points. A gal with nice personality can also be an attracitve point. Thus, u should try to appreciate gals in different angles rather than just based on their beauty. If you can change ur mind, you will be more open to less beautiful gal as ur gf. And you should try to open the network to meet more gals. Like attending interesting class, joining vacation trips etc can make u know more and understand more about gals. Don't give up man.

ahem.. then give her another chance...

Well I don't want to sound rude - but the reason why you unhappy is because your life is, as you say, miserable. From the tone of your post, whether you monger or not is quite irrelevant, because irrespective of what you do you still feel unhappy/lonely.

Personally - I haven't been in a relationship for quite a while - and I like it that way. I was happy single before I started mongering - and happy single after mongering.

For you, it seems that you are unhappy single without mongering - and unhappy single mongering. Speaking in relative terms though, you are less unhappy mongering - so keep up the mongering