A pleasant good morning to all, respective Seniors and MODS.
After monitoring this thread, may i be allowed to share some of my insights and opinions regarding this issue.

When i first join the forum last Sept, i opened almost every thread on the 1st pages on every section to read its contents.
I anxiously read every report as i wana learn much in preparation for my upcoming trip in Dec.
I can view the DB pics of the girls being reported but those LIVE pics taken by respective members were restricted and as a newbie i wasnt able to view them.
Upon reading reports that those DB pics arent accurate becoz of heavy photoshop on the girls actual pics and the agents sometimes switch girl on hotel walk ins, i got very curious and the urge to increase my RA was there.
I seeked some advise from our fellow members and the MODS on how i can increase my RA in the shortest period of time as i need them to get reference as my trip inches closer.
Many members including the MODS explained to me that my RA will come naturally if i contribute, make reports and reports with pics will earn me much Karma points w/c will increase my RA.
At that time, i barely have any reports to share as i live in another country so i just sort of hang out, keep on asking questions and make some remarks and comments on certain posts.
When i reached RA 30 i was able to view the LIVE pics and was amazed how some members were capable of taking picture from these WGs.
The pics are great as i can judge how they look in reality compared to the DB pics.
Naked pictures are even better and i'm always excited to check on them specially those from BLAZZA.

When its time for my trip, i told myself, when i come back, i gonna present my reports in details and with pics so i can show to the fellow members including the MODS about my sincerity in joining this forum.

Indeed i did present my reports with pics of WGs (no face, not naked as i respect their condition and as they grant my request for photos).
I am happy those reports i presented were acknowledged by fellow members and the MODS.

For me, pictures are significant, it makes reports more interesting to read and it does prove that the report is authentic and not copied or just fantasized.

[ Last edited by  devilgodspeed at 16-12-2011 11:38 ]

TWICE, I actually support the ADMIN's decision with the changes he made. Yes they were unpopular. Yes I was more devastated than Happpysex (he created it) as we put a lot of effort into Borderless and after only being officially up for 4 days all sub groups were shut down. However, the changes were made in light of corrupt officials doing illegal activities in a secret sub group within 141. The ADMIN had no choice but to make drastic unpopular changes and its fully accepted now.

On the subject of being burned at one time, that’s different from my case as I knew the OP didn’t have permission to post and should remove the photos. Your report was shared to get the same the level of service or some advantage. Someone took advantage of you and in my case the OP took advantage of the HG.  

Maybe TD was right that I should have been more discrete and PM the OP first. But I now know that the majority here prefers the act of selfishness (protect themselves) over the interest of the HG. This saddens me deeply! I think the Chin Forum has done a bit more than the English Forum to address this issue.  

@ Devilgodspeed --- your POV is fine and I think everyone would agree.  This is not the debate...

Anyway, yeah I suppose I DID say I don't value the pics all that much, but I realize I was overstating my point  - I do value them to see if the girl is hot versus the DB (its amazing how different they look in 85% of the cases).

I didn't see anyone else debate the value of real pics - this debate is about sharing them outside 141 or posting them without her explicit consent.

Bro Happppy

I'm not sure if what you just said is the actual meaning you intended or I'm just getting the wrong idea of what you're trying to say ...

yes, reports are for the benefit of our brotherhood to find some WG that fits in with what they're looking for but not vice versa ... we are the client and we look for them, they don't look for us !  

There are 2 different issues that's been discussed in this thread and I think, for clarity, it would be best if they are talked about point by point ...

1. Posting pictures with/without the consent of the WG
2. Showing the WG and maybe even to the extent of translating to the WG reports by bros in this forum - for whatever reason that person might have

Both are ethical / moral issues within the society of the forum ... but neither can be policed properly
From the replies to this thread, I don't think anyone disputes the fact that one should have permission of the WG before they post any pictures,
what is in dispute is the fact that some bros will show, tell, whatever, the WG reports written about her by other bros (and I stress again for whatever reasons they might have)

GARY, in a earlier post in this thread said he has gone after people who disrespects the WG by posting pics without her permission, by the same token, should bros here go after people who disrespect fellow bros by showing the WG reports by others ?

[ Last edited by  twiceAweek at 16-12-2011 12:15 ]

Yes, it was a different time and different circumstances but same issue ... the temptation to show the girls reports by others - for whatever reason
For what its worth, simply because it cannot be policed,  I think the good that will come out of this thread is the fact that readers will know that, we as a community, are against people who practice this !


I don't think you have heart beat of the forum on this one ... its not about protecting one self ... and I certainly don't think that the Chinese side have addressed anything like this but this is irrelevant with the different cultures ...

[ Last edited by  twiceAweek at 16-12-2011 12:11 ]

Goose, it is too bad you got the sense we don't want to protect the gals.  It seems most agree (I do!) that consent is required from the gal before posting a pic.  Hell, I have NEVER posted any nude pic that showed her face. Punishment for breaking that rule is valid..,

It seems most bros were just shocked by the double-barrel approach without ANY information/evidence about why.  As executioner you could have at least stated what you knew in that first post - it would have saved some grief.   Turns out he did do wrong - so glad the pics are down.  As are most on here.

The issue of sharing reports with gals is NOT in conflict with our responsibility to protect them aswell.  It is not one option or the other - both issues are valid and important.

Unfortunately, we cannot and should not make rules that can't be policed properly ...

Rules are rules .... and there usually are plonkers who finds a way or another around it. But what is important is the spirit of the law - especially when such spirit is so important to the whole viability of the small community of like minded bros here.

Nobody is going to be posting up any reports if there is the HIGH likelihood that such report is going to be used against them.

Yes, there is probably no rule that can be enacted to ensure that everybody follows the spirit of "what goes on in the forum stays in the forum" but anytime we DO know that somebody has actually committed such a breach of trust, I think that the Mods should strongly and emphatically condemn the perpetrator. A strong message should be sent against such practice.

Even ensure that such perp no longer have the ability to view high RA'd reports/pics until they work themselves back up... and prove that that they are indeed worthy of such privilege.

Just IMHO

SEAJ

Guilty as charged, I did not have permission to post pictures here:
http://forum.sex141.com/eforum/v ... =celcius&page=2

The use of having pictures here is for the report to be more helpful. As people say, a picture speaks a thousand words. Of course, having those pictures posted without the consent of the WGs is unethical. But how do you exactly obtain consent without letting out the existence of this forum? Imagine this scenario:

You: Can I take pictures of you?
WG: Sure. Go ahead.
You: I'm going to post this picture along with a report on a forum where other bros gather and write similar reports.
WG: HUH?

How does the above look? How else would you explain yourself to her without leaking out the existence of this forum?

Nevertheless, since this is something that cannot be tolerated, please have those pictures in post #21 on that thread removed. Moreover, what scares me is that there are some people here who would take the content of this thread outside.

I have never had any thought about bros here leaking the content of this forum outside, especially to the WGs themselves. Right now, this really scares me. All I thought of when posting up picture of this forum was to help other bros here by showingthem how the WG really look like. Of course, I did that in trust that the bros here will not divulge this anywhere else. But since this is not the case, would the MOD please have those pictures I posted removed?

I believe the key of having this forum as fun/useful as it is now, is to have our members understand that content of this forum is PRIVATE within this community.

I think this thread already speaks for itself ... loudly
that said, we, as mods will need to think how this issue as well as the posting pic issue can be installed/changed within the guidelines of the forum

I had written up a reply earlier, not sure if it got posted...

As this thread is still ongoing-

Just so I have the sequence of events right...

You saw a report on not your favorite girl la.  They had pictures up.  For some reason you KNEW that these pictures were not allowed.  So you confronted the girl about it.  She tells you he did not have permission.  Thus your actions are justified.

I see a report done by you.  I confront your SO about it.  She/He tells me you did not have permission.  Thus my actions are justified.

Or is this a false equivalency?

You're pic need not be deleted at this moment ... the girl obviously knew and agreed to the picture being taken, but I take it that you did not ask permission to post them on the internet

Presently, there are no rules about having permission from the WG to post pics ...
mods have always believed that this forum have respected and protected (as much as possible) the WGs and the pictures of them that's been posted ...

by that I mean :

Sneaky pics are not allowed - we can usually tell if they have been taken sneakily - so easy to enforce
Posted pics to have min RA 20 for shots without face, and min RA30 for shots with face, for more explicit pics we advise a higher RA.

Right now we're talking about ethics/morals which means permission from the girl ... something not so easy to enforce ... and at this point in time I am questioning the need to have this as a rule !  I'm certain there are many instances posting where a facial picture of a girl, fully dressed in a non comprimising position need not have this requirement !

Mods will discuss and decide about this issue shortly

[ Last edited by  twiceAweek at 16-12-2011 13:20 ]

You do not have to indicate to the girl about a forum. You just ask the girl if it is ok for you to share her pics with your friends. - Which I did once and the girl turned me down. So far no pics of girls from me. I don't how most guys get the pics.


Let us think about this :

Sometimes plagiarizing reports are detected by bros who are members of other forums. These reports are then immediately outed and the responsible bro banned. But do we ever think about reports from our db be taken cut+pasted onto other forums?

Do the bros on those forums ever notice that the reports were plagiarized from here? Do they take action like us and banned that member or delete the report? If not, would it be naive of me to think no one over in that forum takes that report to show to the wgs on his visit, thinking the report was created at that forum?

How do we control this? We really cannot as it would mean putting together a group of copyright enforcers who are posted (undercover) in all the other boards/forums which is impossible. Besides the known chinese/english forums, there are forums of other languages, ie do we ask our french members to patrol the french forums?

So all we can do is hope that everyone here follows a code of ethics and offenders immediately punished. If we hear of anything being used improperly, we can only wish that blame cannot be traced back to this db but stops at the other forum/source.

I don't think that any of us here have gone to the trouble of getting a model release.  (And legally, I guess that's what we are talking about).

Theoretically I think that the girl would be in the right if there were a dispute.

But practically I think that you have to weigh the innocence/worldliness of the girl with the circumstances.

There are some situations where it is a given that you are free to do whatever you want with the pics.  Others it is obvious that the girl would never give permission if asked.

But to answer your little dialog?  How about "Can I show these to a few of my friends? -- they are looking for a cute girl to visit"

If she says "Are you going to post them on the Internet?"  I'd be a little torn.  One possibility is "I don't want the entire world to see you!  I'm only going to show a few friends", but personally I'd be uncomfortable.    I think I'd still take the pics, but promise to keep them for myself.

@twiceaweek
You condensed it well with your two threads.  It makes an easy golden rule.  1. Don't be an jerk to the girls.  2. Don't be an jerk to the guys.

@twiceAweek:
Bro twice, yes, I did not ask permission for the picture to be posted here. But, I'm starting to feel insecure about having some members here leaking out content of this forum, which was why I was asking the pictures to be deleted. Sorry if I'm being troublesome.

@doghead:
Sorry bro. With all due respect, I'd have to disagree with your suggestion.

Showing her photos to your friends is different from posting the photos on the internet. If you ask for permission to show your friends, do you regard everyone here as your friend? If not, you should not be posting the photos here. I feel that this is just a half-assed excuse. I'd feel better not asking at all. At least I don't feel that I'm lying.

Please take no offense.

Regarding the reports plagiarized from here, this is the internet. Everything is possible. I feel that it's up to the integrity of the bro here to have enough conscience to know what he is doing and behave himself accordingly.

@yazoo:
From what I understand, your above comment seem to agree with my explanation to bro doghead in this post. If we want to let the girls know what they are into, let them know the truth. Just my 2 cents.

Well when I say a few friends I mean a limited audience, but yeah, I'm starting to have second thoughts about that, myself.

One other point is I don't think that there is a lot of value in reviewing repeats.  There is too much bias there.  The risk that a bro may show a girl increases that bias.

I reviewed a girl the other day with a sort of positive review - but said that she sounded like a broken robot.  I probably will never go back.  Would I care if someone showed her the review?  Not really.  It might make her improve.  I'm not going back and so don't care if she sees it or not.  I would be very concerned if someone showed her the review if I was a regular.  If I planned on going back I probably would have self-censored.

I can see your logic for not really caring about if others use your reports for their own needs etc or not - but Happpysex also mentioned "Respect" for the girl.

In most cases, someone would use a report by others to "extract/demand" one thing or another from the gal.

Goose in post #62 also mentioned "...corrupt officials doing illegal activities in a secret sub group..." on the Chinese side; think about what will happen if we allow such to migrate to our side by NOT cracking down on guys misusing our report.

SEAJ

Err….Not really quite sure, but here’s some C+P tid-bits that Goose has posted previously as to the privileges he gets. From:
http://forum.sex141.com/eforum/v ... p;extra=&page=1

- Actuall I dont even bother to look at the db pics, as I'm allowed to visit the agents girls and pick the ones I like. Sometimes I dont even know their db names.

- I managed to go back to JB one time and the guy that picked up even had the nerve to ask me what type of HGs I like, I told him that they normally pick for me.

- Priority is everything! Like you said, you get to preview the girls first, take pics for as long as you like, you can take other bro's timeslots, you can chat with the girls to see if there is chemistry before booking (tell me can you get that by looking at db pics, obviously not), we are not even obliged to write a report for the agents. One agent has even said that he didn't mind if I do a preview and don't pick anyone. He will just tell me to come back next week.

- Being close to agents does have certain issues, but I see the value on my side of the fence.  

- Some punters are so powerful that the agents give them "pocket money".....fascinating hearing all these stories!! I would be afraid to even discuss this in the Chinese Forum.

- There is absolutely no need to be involved in the daily operations, which carries a lot of risk, be a major shareholder.

You know the most powerful senior in the Chin Forum is a major shareholder, even James report to him

I'm back to reply...

First, I think you also know Goose don't go to show/share any report and photos to the HG, because he don't need that to get any extra services or pretend as good guy.  He wrote up that sentences is talking some fact, the following is my interpretation.

    Even we want to apply our concept of 'What happens in this forum, stay in this forum', the fact is it cannot control someone to post/show the report/photos in other areas/WG.  Jerk is still in the world even we set in higher RA.

Now, I'm really posting more reports in Chinese forum instead of here.  Actually, I'm really considering to start posting report in here too.

In Chinese forum, it is really no such concept on privacy, too many jerks really.  But, in English forum, I'm still expecting kind of fair judgement exist.  That's why I'm still voice out my opinion when I feel something not so right.  Because I still believe the bros in here are more reasonable.

On this case, as I stated in #51, may be it is not clear enough to express my viewpoint.  Let me try to explain it again.

- I'm not object to 'What happens in this forum, stay in this forum' concept, because I was also the victim and understand the bros feeling
- The intention of Goose to clarify with the girl is not under original concept of 'What happens in this forum, stay in this forum', he want to find out the fact

That's why I feel it is not right to comment Goose under 'What happens in this forum, stay in this forum'.

In my understanding, the root cause of this discussion is I saw the replies on applying the 'What happens in this forum, stay in this forum' to Goose's action.

You mentioned in the facts in the world which I agreed totally, because this is not a perfect world, everyone has the freedom to do his stuffs.

But, in English forum, I saw many bros were helping to keep the quality in this forum.  Based on the contain of report and the photos, we try to analysis the truth story.  I saw those photos at yesterday morning.  From the photos, it really shows the girl is not really to take the photos, I think no one doubt about that.  It was given the certain replies to the report owner.  My action to neg his points is based on the reason to neg, not just few words, you can check on that.  In another way round, I saw the over react from the mods on this case.  May be the mod is worrying our action is destroying something.  But, is it the case? can destory so easily by neg few Ks?  I doubt.

We live based on our discipline and principle, it is not on the papera.  Rules is helping to give the guideline to follow.  But, on Goose's action, this comment 'What happens in this forum, stay in this forum' is really not fair and judged.