Man, with friends like you guys, I think cherry boy should just stay home and read the Bible.

True friendship requires more than just passive acceptance of a friend's hangups  - it sometimes requires a push in the right direction. Good friends sometimes have to act the catalyst, helping a bro to see the light and crawl out of a bad rut - and what could be a worse rut than lifelong celibacy ffs. What kind of whoreboys are you anyway?

Suppose the guy had some weird crippling phobia, wouldn't you try to help the guy to get over his problem even if it involved a little trickery; or would you just ask the guy if he wanted to do what you already know he doesn't want to do?

Sometimes you got to think outside the box, take risks, and be prepared to push the limits. Otherwise nothing gets done, nothing improves.

[ Last edited by  Marsupial at 2-1-2010 14:08 ]

(sorry - just a stooopid inside joke  from another thread)
But really, aintcha just presuming too many things about our friend's friend?

Who the hell knows what his hang-up, his beliefs, his d'ruthers really are?

And I ain't suggestin' any "Passive acceptance" of anything - just not YOUR suggested push.  A true friend is one who would go out of his way to do things for the benefit of his friends - not what's easy to do, not what's fun OR even what a "Poll" such as this suggest him to do.

Rugger push the way you suggest, and I can pretty well predict (presume?) that he's gonna push his friend away from him, Adios, Sayonara!

No doubt in most of OUR estimation, Rugger's buddy's got some kind of hang-up or problem - but the way for Rugger to really help out HIS FRIEND is to discuss, cajole, convince and empathize with his friend.  Who knows - perhaps his friend is coming all the way over here to convert Rugger into HIS way of thinkin'  - you know - all that Palin bull shit thing!

Who knows?? But I'd suggest to never throw caution to the wind when dealing with sensitivities involving friendships.

Just IMHO

SEAJ

[ Last edited by  SEAJ at 2-1-2010 01:25 ]

Am I presuming anymore than you? And if the guy really is pathologically hungup, then even my little deception might not work. And I am suggesting ruggers acts in the interests of his friend. The guy's a 29 year old virgin ffs. He won't even attempt to pick up a chick in a bar, and he refuses to pay for it. so what's left?!

And since he's never had sex, he doesn't even know what it is he's denying himself, so he's not in a position to act intelligently. Clearly the best thing to do here is get the guy laid, and it's obviously going to take more than "empathy".

Deception is warranted.

Nobody really knows that Rugger's friends "problem" if indeed it is a problem to him - but what WOULD happen if Rugger "pushes" him the way you suggest - and IF his friend is say :

1.Gay
2. Physically well under endowed
3. Secretly married/engaged for whatever reason
4.  Made a pact of celibacy before marriage (They've actually got a club somewhere of members vowing this!!) or
5. Yowich....Impotent!!

Disaster! NO?

Anyway, lets just agree to disagree and for both of us just remind Rugger to really think about what he's gonna do before he does it.

Friends ARE that important!

SEAJ

[ Last edited by  SEAJ at 2-1-2010 00:42 ]

If the guy is gay, impotent, or thinks he has an abnormally small dick, the sooner he admits and learns to deal with the problem, the better off he'll be. (I personally know several guys whose lives improved immeasurably once they admitted being gay.) However, it might be true that he only thinks he's one of the above, and once push comes to shove he may recognize his mistake, in which case his life will again improve.

If' he's married or taken a vow of chastity for some religious reason, he'd just admit it. In any case, the ploy won't succeed and no harm done. (I'm not suggesting you drug the guy or get him drink, just arrange a situation where he'll be tempted by a very beautiful girl, and be guaranteed to score.)

If the guy does has a hangup, and these things can become harder to solve the longer they persist, then you'll be doing him a huge favor. He'll name his first-born after you.

The guy's clearly in a rut and needs a shove to start moving in some direction.

[ Last edited by  Marsupial at 3-1-2010 14:24 ]

YES to all that - he does need a "push" - but NOT in the way that you and others are suggesting.

I hope you agree that the problems that we THINK the guy is suffering from are ALL quite sensitive to him and as such, must also be handled sensitively by his FRIEND. NOt just get him in an impossible situation where there's no backing up - and most probably with others besides just Rugger present.

but Mars - lets just leave it to us agreeing to disagreein' OK?  Believe you and I've gotten more than our fair share of word and/on suggestions to Rugger.

Arigato

SEAJ

This is exactly what St. Marzoopial is talkin' about and I whole heartedly agree.  While it is true that there can be some heavy, unknown psychological shit that you may not know about, the much grander error these days is how we all hang back and let our friends and loved ones "make their own mistakes."  It's one thing if that 'mistake' is a minimal, temporary thing (like booking United instead of Cathay or Singapore Airlines ) but far worse than that is our predilection to roll over and play dead when when we KNOW our friends are screwing up for years at a time.

You know this, we've all done it.  A buddy announces his engagement to the biggest bitch on the planet and you recoil in terror and peep, "Well . . . I guess if you love her then we'll love her too . . . ?" ,  or your grandpa keeps buying your grandma the really bad weed, y'know, the stuff with pesticides on it, and you won't intervene.    

So what if your pal has a small wiener.  That's no excuse to let him closet himself for years on end.  Likewise with the secret marriage/engagement.  Who the fuck does that secret?! If he's doing that then he definitely needs a little shake up.  And the pact of celibacy?  Fine, but if it's making him act all weird then his pals have to take him out and get his oil changed (that's a colloquial way of saying fucked in the U.S.).  And need I even address the 'impotent' situation?  Impotent??!! Ain't nobody gonna stay impotent with the right HK Hotel Girl!

Friends don't let friends drive drunk (except on a closed course and only for laughs).  Friends don't let friends make big, dumbass mistakes year after year after year.

Take him out, get him well fucked and if he's all offended then apologize and promise never to do it again, but don't just sit there letting him suffer in some sort of mediocre rut in life.

Like I said prior - the nice thing about this forum is that one can agree to disagree - yet it never ceases to amaze me just how completely on oppposite ends our opinions can sometimes be!

Just want to repeat what you had previously said ".....I would be cautious that there's not some psychological atom bomb you're about to set off....." and for Ruggers to really think properly about what he is gonna do with his buddy.
SEAJ

o wow! Thanks to all for your suggestions and povs. It's difficult with this guy. He wasn't religious but he is now a Christian.

I guess the best way, like most bros suggested, is get a little drink in him before hand and then see where that goes. KTV sounds about right.. If I bring him to Chang An and he doesn't wanna shag after that, he will just have to whack off by himself in his room! lol..

Just a few more days till he's here. Let's see how it goes and I'll let y'all know. Cheers.

Good Luck!!

I for one am extremely curious as to what happens!

If it all falls apart, you could always all rally around him and have a prayer meeting at the KTV!!  

Even include the naked KTV gals at Chang An - NOW.... that'd be a sight to behold!!

SEAJ

Take him to MGM - http://forum.sex141.com/eforum/s ... mp;searchsubmit=yes - where the chicks go naked.

If he resists that then I don't know what to think

It may be the case that the guy has become a Christian precisely because it offers a psychologically acceptable way of dealing with whatever underlying problem is preventing him form experiencing sexual intimacy with another human being. And if the guy has embraced Jesus to deal with some sexual phobia, it's going to be very difficult to get him laid: as soon as he begins to feel any anxiety about sex, he'll flee to Jesus and interpret the relief of anxiety-avoidance as some kind of religious epiphany. There's a lot of this kind of thing going on in the heads of the devout - just think of the celibacy of nuns and the whole married-to-Jesus thing.

If sexual phobia does underlie his Christianity, and you manage to get him to recognize that fact, you'll be doing him a huge favor as he'll see his religion as nothing but a simple pain-avoidance mechanism.

In any case, does anyone really think that some god capable of creating a vast universe would really give a shit about what we do with our dicks on this planet of ours.

Some of my most profound moments - religious moments - have been experienced when making love to wonderful women.

[ Last edited by  Marsupial at 3-1-2010 14:25 ]

You mean like when I pray

"Please Please God, Please don't let it go limp yet......!"

SEAJ

Haha Mars you sound like a great drinking buddy   Love to hear all those stories of yours.
And oh yeah Ruggers - I vote for giving your buddy a shove with the right girl.

That's what friends are for aren't they? If I was in such a rut - I would appreciate a buddy of mine giving me a nudge!

What you obviously mean is a push in what YOU THINK is the right direction.

You're obviously a guy who thinks that 'your' way is not only the 'right' way, but the only way. What's the word for that?

I agree with SEAJ, your way would probably kill the friendship.

Obviously the right direction as I see it. Should I recommend pushing him in the right direction as the Pope sees it, or maybe the guy behind the espresso machine at Starbucks? We all have to do what we think is right both for ourselves and our friends. Or would you have me push him in what I consider a wrong direction?

Not to act as one thinks right, even when it concerns others, results in empty-headed, and impossible-to-live-by moral neutrality, which, if taken to its logical conclusion, leads to the inability to act at all.

In any case, the logical emptiness of your objection is illustrated by the fact that it could just as easily apply to your own position. Every act, even the decision not to act, involves a choice, and choice is driven by what we think is right. I described what I think is right in my above posts. If you disagree with my ideas, let's hear your objections. But spare me the freshman philosophy lecture.

[ Last edited by  Marsupial at 3-1-2010 00:45 ]

My recommendation is given in post #12. In what way is it  "empty-headed, and impossible-to-live-by moral neutrality"?

"let's hear your objections." My objection is that by deceiving a friend, as you suggest, you might very easily destroy a friendship. That's quite a big risk to take if someone cares for his friend, as ruggers15 obviously does.

Maybe you don't have any friends to care about.

You've edited your post #36 - and it's NOT just a typo or grammatical error that you've edited out. Due to your edit no one will now understand my first sentence.

[ Last edited by  pisser at 3-1-2010 00:54 ]

So now, apart from getting him laid, you want to destroy his beliefs because they don't coincide with yours. Why not just give the guy a lobotomy?

You miss the point. Accusing someone of doing what he thinks is right is senseless. You should have expressed yourself better.

Nothing I recommend would result in any harm whatsoever to ruggers' friend; it certainly wouldn't destroy a friendship of any substance.

I recommend what I do precisely because that's how I would act towards a friend I care about.

You're so hung-up on the word 'deceive' that you can't think straight.

I don't think you really understand people pisser. A lot of what you say comes across as naive principle rather than an understanding of what really makes people tick.

[ Last edited by  Marsupial at 5-1-2010 13:08 ]

If his religion is just a device to avoid dealing with an unhealthy phobia, i.e., a psychological crutch. Learn to read pisser!

[ Last edited by  Marsupial at 3-1-2010 01:01 ]